Feminism and SAHM

[samoa]

Can a woman be a feminist and a SAHM by choice?

Ha ha oneliein, I guess so

But how will women ever be at the heads of the corporations and have men working for them, lining their pockets, if theyre all at home raising children?

Beleive me, I think it's all as unfair as you do but I just don't think any of us can lead a revolt from a changing table...

OneLieIn
If women are not poor because they're women why aren't more men prostitutes? Why don't more women have the spare cash to buy another human being's body???

Why is there a pay gap?

Don't tell me you're like that Tory MP who believes that women choose to be poorer because they're masochists, or whatever
it was he was saying.

Women are poorer because they're women, and men are richer because they're men. There's no doubt about that.

What does it mean that DH will be a SAHD?

A positive step for feminism.

I'm a SAHM by choice and consider myself a feminist. But it doesn't feel like a feminist choice to stay at home. I think this is largely because of the huge separation we have nowadays between family and economic life and the lack of support for combining a family and work for both of husband and me.

I find the withdrawal from economic life to be disempowering. Because of the value society places on the role of caring for children, the way it will impact my economic power in the future and because I find it uses a lot less of my skill set than working did - I feel stunted and hemmed in by by the role.

As far as I can see it is only in recent times that the sahm role has come into existence. In the past and in many other places in the world today, you worked and looked after children at the same time. Either working from home or taking your children with you.

My ideal wouldn't be to go out to work and put the kids in childcare full time at this age. It would be support for my husband and me to have flexibility in the work world to combine child care and work better.

Women are poorer because they're women, and men are richer because they're men. There's no doubt about that true.

LadyT, so it is our duty to bring our dcs up to understand and believe in equality. For our DDs, they need to believe they can be anything and everything they want to be and be encouraged to go and get it.

Sakura - women are not always working for men and even if they are, they are working for themselves, to provide for their family.

My point about education is that it strikes me that the apathy of adults is revisited on the DDs and that DDs are not encouraged to go and be successful, to be brave and ambitious and daring and all of those amazing things.

As for women having spare cash to buy another's body, its not about the £. A lot of women have a spare £20, but they choose not to spend it exploiting another human being. Its about the morals, not the £.

Re flexibility suchprospects I beleive that if this was better for both parents it would be a big step in the right direction. Flexibilty needs to be offered to both mum's and dad's indescriminatly.

I hear a lot of mums saying that they are the one who has to stay at home when the kids are sick etc because it would be frowned upon if the dad took time off.

My ex tries to use this excuse constantly as I demand that he and I share these times equally. I just tell him to think of it as taking a positive step in the name of feminism and that his DD will thank him in the long run - no wonder he left me, self righteous dungaree wearing old bat!

Women are poorer sometimes because they're women and sometimes because they lack self belief, ambition, desire etc to focus on working for £ , and men are richer because they're men. There's no doubt about that true

Agree, but not all women are poorer and not all men are richer.

Oneliein, your post made me recall a recent conversation with DSD whereby she told me she wanted to be an airhostess when she grew up and I spent about an hour persuading her she should set her sights on 'pilot' why is it that our DDs assume that airhostess is where they should be aiming?

no, no not all women by far... I think Sakura was reffering to 'women' as an overall group. In which case it is undeniably true.

My DD wants to go to Cambridge and be a lawyer then she changed her mind and wanted to be a writer, she can be both. She can do anything she wants if she has desire, belief and self confidence. I will be fully supportive, go do, my darling girl!

As for your DD, pilot all the way

seth, re your post at 21:21:38 yes I do agree that that could be the feminist choice :)

SuchProspects, on that note I thought people might be interested in this article from the NY Times.

When Mom and Dad Share It All

When I read it I remember being floored by the extremeness to which this family takes shared parenting - every little detail is split 50/50. But the principle is wonderful.

ha ha if it was my DD I wouldnt have been having the conversation as she has been brought up to know the sky is the limit. It was in fact DSD who said about being an airhostess.. her mother's sole ambition for her DD is for her to marry a footballer so I've got a lot of work to do

DSD could marry a woman footballer if only to piss her mother off

haha brilliant!!!!

I don't think the flexibility thing is only about offering it to both mothers and fathers. I think we need a cultural shift in thinking about how work and family life fit together. I don't think it would be a great benefit to women if the prejudice women in the workforce face over motherhood is merely extended to parents and parenthood. There are far more single mothers than single fathers. And besides the hit that families take is unfair given the economic gains the country gets from families bringing up children.

I have come to see the separation of family and work life to be a big issue in the ability of society to support families.

This thread is moving too fast

I am a SAHM feminist.

I don't see why I couldn't be.

Who says looking after kids and home is less worthy than an office job? if so, why? I happen to think I am doing a very worth wile and important job.

I have a friend who would like to be a SAHM, but her husband says it is not on so she works.

In whose world would she be a feminist, for being a WOHM, and me not?

I find it really annoying that WOMEN look down on other women because they cook dinner, do the washing and raise the kids. Why do you think this is beneath you? Are you really a feminist or actually a misogynist who thinks these tasks are inferior BECAUSE they are often performed by women?

I sometimes find the disdain on MN for SAHMs quite dispiriting.

just asking the question the OP asks shows feminism still has a long way to go.

I think because it's posted on the feminism board it is a more in depth conversation that the usual SAHM Vs WOHM bun fight. Which is why I'm getting involved. Its a respectful conversation and debate rather than one that shows 'distain' I would say.

Regards your friend, feminist or not, she needs to get a new partner!

this particular thread is not as disdainful as some I have seen before, granted, I just read a thread title and thought: This question again?!.

I know at least 5 women (2 of my SILs!) who work but rather wouldn't, not because of money but because their DH doesn't think it is fair, as you get so much lovely time off once they are at playgroup or school.

It's quite common really.

...like this thread (o.k. o.k., it's AIBU)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1136534-AIBU-to-be-annoyed-with-mothers-who-cant-be-bothered-to-work

Eurghhhhhhhh quite. I have hidden that thread.

SuchProspects, I agree. I may not have made my point very well earlier! But at the moment fathers in the workplace are able to be 'invisible' in a way that mothers aren't. There is that basic assumption that wifey will be the one picking up the slack at home and if she's out earning a bit of pin money, bless her, then she'll be the one taking the day off to care for sick kids etc.

I don't think the answer is to penalise all parents regardless of gender. I think there has to be a cultural shift that recognises that workers have families and that in terms of productivity etc a bit more flexibility from employers could be useful as well as just more humane.

Also, just because you may find yourself forced into an 'unfeminist' position by circumstances doesn't disqualify you from being a feminist. Hopefully being a feminist might help give you the tools to change those circumstances. But simply finding your choices constricted by patriarchy, capitalism etc doesn't mean you have to hang up your dungarees for good ;)

"just asking the question the OP asks shows feminism still has a long way to go."

Surely the pretty unanimous responses saying a SAHM can be a feminist in response to the OP shows that feminism does not have a long way to go

Also, Chandon, I don't think people on this thread are 'looking down' at SAHMs at all, rather pointing out that in some cases it can be a very disempowered situation to be in. Which it really can.

That Aibu thread is ridiculous.

As is the idea that you get so much lovely time off!

Got to go and prune a tree now. Grrr.