Feminism and SAHM

[samoa]

Can a woman be a feminist and a SAHM by choice?

Oneliein - why measure at all? We are a world obsessed by measuring so that we can compare thus demonstrate that we are better. Why can't we just 'be' and be happy about it?

"creating life is an exclusively female phenomenon. Men by definitioncannot create life"

It takes both a man and a woman to create life but only the woman can bear it

that's true

I should have said bear life. Men by definition cannot bear life
And there are so many signs- from the patriarchy's art and media, through to their incessant war-mongering, that tell me the patriarchy don't like this one bit

So, how do you know that a society is successful. You said you don't want to measure GDP, so what do you want to measure?

Sweatshops are not anti-feminist, they are anti-human rights, exploitation of the poor by the rich. You can be a feminist and work in a multi-national

But my DH has no power or rights over me! It's what Flamingo said earlier - that's a controlling partner.

But why do we need to know if a society is successful? We measure everything far too much that it has become smothering. Somethings cannot be measured but that doesn't mean to say they don't exist.

But there's the point - if you cannot support yourself by clothing, heating, feeding and providing enough for your basic needs, then yes, he does have power over you.

Money talks sadly.

This is the real power of the relationship - in the mutual trust and understanding that allows you to agree to take a particular course

why do you have to measure a society's success?

sweat shops are anti-feminist because it's predominantly young women working in them and it's always men who own them. Sweat shop work is gendered. Recently a factory full of young women burned to the ground in INdia (Gap)- the women died. It reminded me of the Triangle Shirtwaist factory in the U.S where 147 women died because they were trapped back to back in the room behind their sewing machines.

And don't get me started on who produces the food that ends up on Tesco shelves. I could write an essay on that. WOmen own less than 10% of the world's land but produce over 90% of the world's food- for a pittance.

On the matter of society, women and working - I feel that the choice to stay at home or not once you have children is hindered by government as it is only a woman that can claim statutory maternity pay.

When I had my DD I had to be the one to stay at home for 6 moths with her as if my DP had done it we couldnt have claimed the £450 odd a month that we needed to get by.

In what modern world is that equality and/or choice ???

"Money talks sadly"

That's the banner of the patriarchy.

I use way too many italics

LadyTremain,

the women's movement fought long and hard for maternity leave. Before that, the capitalists were more than happy to let women work barefoot and pregnant in factories, during the Industrial revolution, and sack them when they gave birth.

MAternity leave is not a privilege extended to many women throughout the world (even in the US is something crap like 3 month unpaid)

I would think very hard before handing those hard-fought for rights over to men

I'm with you in your annoyance re the 10%/90% statistic sakura - it is indeed pittiful. But are we then saying that choosing not to work is a feminist act? rather than working for a corporation like, say, Tesco?

If so, is it still a feminist act if you are supported by the money your partner earns at such a firm?

I disagree. You are confusing capitalism with feminism. In a capitalist world, rich and poor are at opposite ends of the spectrum; the rich exploit the poor regardless of gender

In a feminist world, equality is all (regardless of £)

Yes, I am aware of the women's movement fighting for this. I agree there should be 6 months paid leave for one parent. I also agree that it would be pure maddness to allow women to be sacked for being pregant or for taking that maternity leave themselves.

I just don't understand why it can't be left to the woman to decide of she or her partner take the leave.. why SHould I have to be at home for 6 months changing nappies just because I am a woman?

Maternity pay should of course be given only to the woman. If the woman then chooses to give this to the dp so she can work (for example) then that is OK. It should only be given to the woman as the woman is the only (forget bottles as they require money) source of food for the baby

Yes, I agree OneLieIn, but at the moment you can't choose to give the money to the DP so that you can work. If you work then you don't get any mat pay... if your partner can't afford to stay at home with no pay and then (unless you want to leave a month old baby in childcare) then you have no choice but to be the one at home..

OneLiein
Believe me, I am not confusing anything.

If you want to tell me that economic exploitation is not gendered then we are in ORwellian territory here where black is white and white is black

The feminization of poverty is a documented fact

Or do you believe it's some sort of coincidence that women are the world's poor. It is not. The capitalist sytem, just like the communist system (or whatever it was that took place in Russia) depends on the low paid or unpaid work of women. Social scientists know that women are the reserve labour force under capitalism.

Some men are poor, but not because they're men
That's not so with women. WOmen are poor because they're women, and are often poorer than the poorest man. Selling your body to pay for your rent and feed your child is not the kind of destitution that many men have to face

But that's my choice. If something happened where he became ill or left me then I would support myself or us. But that doesn't mean I'd then have power over him. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement.

He provides money for the family's basic needs and I provide the childcare, cooking etc.

When we are at home together, we both share the chores if there are any left needing doing.

That does not make me emancipated.

But what if he decided not to give you any money tomorrow... what would you do?

WOuld you be able to continue to support your family to the same degree they are being supported at the moment?

Speaking of the feminisation of poverty, whilst many many women have no choice in this area, if we do have the choce to work rather than risk poverty at the hands of our husbands whim, would that not be a step towards changing the status quo?

LadyT - you are right - my hangover has dulled my brain. A woman should be able to work and give the £ to dp. Absolutely. But a DP should not be able to claim alone.

Sakura, I don't believe its a coincidence, you are right. But I also don't believe many women are poor because they are women especially in western society. if you break it down by economic development, the argument changes surely. A woman may well be poor because she is a woman if she lives and works in a heavily patriarchal state where women's education / opportunities are limited). However, in a state where women's education is promoted and equality is high on the agenda, a woman is not poor because she is a woman.

The ability of an individual to satisfy their basic needs without dependence provides us with true independence.

When in a relationship (or not) with a child, there is a responsibility on both parties to meet the basic needs of that child

OOh you have a hangover - I am jealous And yes, I agree. A man should definitely not be able to claim it himself else of course the system would be abussed.

And a hangover paid for by my own £, does that make me a hungover feminist

"Choice to work" is the patriarchy talking again. WOmen have always worked- how do you think the industrial revolution took place? Coal mining- again, women and children. WOmen have always done back breaking labour for a pittance (they were cheaper than men, of course)

This notion that women have not been working outside the home until recently has been made up by the patriarchal media

It's disgraceful that women are being told that they're "lucky" to work order to line the pockets of Mr Macdonalds or whorever. Because remember, it's men that you're making money for. It's men who head corporations.

WOmen have never really had much of a choice in anything.

If my husband decided not to give me any money tomorrow, I'd be fucked. I'm working my way through it, I'm keeping my hand in, I'm not going to be a SAHM forever.

"In an ideal world, if women were respected for being SAHM and werent at the mercy of the man's wage then yes, you could be a SAHM and a feminst. But as it is, I think we have along way to go until then."

Does this mean because I work in a very male dominated environment, and therefore struggle to be taken seriously, that I cannot be a feminist? Surely the point is that to be a feminist does not mean you have acheived necessarily everything we need to achieve? So you can be a SAHM and a feminist, but surely still understand that it is not yet ideally to support you as such?

What does it mean that DH will be a SAHD?