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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

I am so shocked about that thread stating most women have no pubic hair

452 replies

roseability · 05/01/2011 22:33

I don't know quite why it has disturbed me so much. Like most women I have plucked/shaved and groomed for many years of my life. However the thought of putting myself through that really upsets me for some reason. Not that I plan to. It is just that I have never, ever considered that pubic hair is undesirable. I can't help but relate it to women in porn with little or no pubic hair and it makes me sad to think girls and young women (I have a daughter) will no doubt feel insecure about their vagina and how it looks in this way.

I am by no means a good feminist. As I mentioned I do shave my legs and I wear make up. I have read Beauty and Misogyny by Sheila Jeffreys and I question why I even do this. However it makes me almost weep to think of my daughter being influenced in such a way.

I was just really upset by that thread and I m not sure why

OP posts:

Habbibu · 07/01/2011 13:06

For example, I prefer the look of my legs shaven. I will absolutely hold my hand up to that being due to the prevailing norms of the culture in which I live, however. I'm not weak, I don't think - I do go out of the door without makeup and in comfortable clothes, and feel happy and confident in doing so, but I am human, and I am a social being, liable to be influenced to a greater or lesser extent by prevailing social norms.

NarcolepsyQueen · 07/01/2011 13:07

That's true - but as it is non-permanent and harmless, and is a 'fashion', does it really matter? I would be more concerned with my teenager having hole enlarger earings in, or self harming etc.

blindassasin · 07/01/2011 13:08

Absolutely! Several things come to mind on a daily basis: skinny models in the magazines they read, women discussing hang ups about their bodies as a way of bonding with each other... I was going to list it all but I'd be here all day.

I just think this the thinnest tiniest end of the wedge and not worth all the hype.

melezka · 07/01/2011 13:14

Hmmm...well I was thinking of non-teleological as in, not having an intended outcome, that progress itself was the outcome and that therefore there's no ultimate aim for a specific kind of change. I.e. although we like to think change is for the better it's actually just for the change.

I was reading an article on young men being disturbed by what their use of porn was doing to their relationships with women (and their own bodies and minds and emotions) and part of their concern was with where the continual desire for novelty was going to end up. It seems at the moment the trend is towards more degrading/younger - which is where some of the concerns about prepubescent looks come in. The desire for novelty trumps any moral sense of what might be acceptable.

suzi and jess were both wondering where all the hairless thing was going to end up. For me I want change to mean something and go somewhere and be helpful to people. I'm just not sure it does.

Yes, a cyclical view of society is non-teleological too.

Criticise away, it's an idea to have holes poked in...

Prolesworth · 07/01/2011 13:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

NarcolepsyQueen · 07/01/2011 13:20

Then you clearly haven't met my sociology class then Ormirian They would love to have a mn discussion about it! They had a mature discussion about identity and conformity etc

melezka · 07/01/2011 13:21

Yeah I guess I was musing that capitalism is the apex of the reformist movement (unintended obv)

Ormirian · 07/01/2011 13:22

Well bring them on here then NQ. MN is very educational doncha know?

NarcolepsyQueen · 07/01/2011 13:24

Would love to Ormirian - as long as we all remember that as they are 17/18 they already know all the answers, even if they can't spell the question yet, and promise to play nicely

wukter · 07/01/2011 13:34

You're making me wistful for the days when I knew all the answers, NQ I'd have had every debate sorted and settled in 10 mins back when I was 18.

NarcolepsyQueen · 07/01/2011 13:43

Ahhh yes wukter, if only I knew as much now as I did then

Ormirian · 07/01/2011 13:44

I knew everything when I was 17. Everything!

Unfortunately I seem to have forgotten most of it since.

LeninGrad · 07/01/2011 13:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NarcolepsyQueen · 07/01/2011 13:58

Ahh Ormirian - you must be over the age of 25 then! I think my A Level classes can scientifically prove that you turn into a gibbering idiot once you turn 25, and that you lose your grip on what is really important in society and need explaining what grime or an ipod is [simpering fooligh grin]

blindassasin · 07/01/2011 13:59

oh... and I'm nearly 40... bushy bits were fashionable when i started shaving mine!

NarcolepsyQueen · 07/01/2011 14:02

at blindassasin - a rebel eh?! I like it......shall we form a gang?!

blindassasin · 07/01/2011 14:05

Yes! Maybe i started the trend

(although hopefully not enough people saw it for it to have been an influence )

Original poster

roseability · 07/01/2011 14:07

Ormrian - you articulated beautifully the concept that at some stage girls realise they are not acceptable in their natural state. I felt that twenty years ago so goodness knows how pre pubescent and teenage girls feel now.

When I was 13/14 I started plucking, shaving, dieting etc. It all led to a sense that I was just not good enough. Oh and that was round about the time Kate Moss made her modelling debut and the whole waif thing started.

OP posts:

Original poster

roseability · 07/01/2011 14:08

Ormirian sorry

OP posts:

NarcolepsyQueen · 07/01/2011 14:08

Ahaha - so you are responsible for the distrubing new trend of ridding the body of 'undesirable' hair and making young women feel insecure about their vaginas eh?!

Original poster

roseability · 07/01/2011 14:25

I don't know if that is a joke Narcolepsy but I didn't even consider my vagina no. That is a new trend.

I shaved my legs and armpits and plucked my eyebrows because I was bullied at school for looking like a monkey. I once shaved my upper lip with my step father's razor and cut myself badly.

I wasn't setting the trend I was a victim of it and I found your comment insensitive

OP posts:

Hullygully · 07/01/2011 14:28

My ds and his friends are possibly more concerned about their bodies than my dd. They sort their eyebrows (threading, shaving etc), spend hours on their skin, cry over their hair, worry about clothes, weight...I think it's just wot humans do

sakura · 07/01/2011 14:43

Ormirian summed it up for me as well. Since pondering this thread I've just felt so sad that DD is going to realise that to many she's not acceptable in her natural state.
I just hope the feminists start winning the battle in the next 10 years or so (DD is 4) and she will come of age in an era where women don't have to shave and wax their pubes so they don't feel dirty feel fresh

One antidote I can think of is the Japanese hot spring spa culture. Families go about once a month, males and females go in separate spas ( children of either sex up to about the age of 7 can go in either the male or female spa) .
Well.. you go in and it's jam-packed full of naked women, of all ages, shapes and sizes, and you get to see them in all their glory. It's just kind of interesting to see women with their femininity stripped away. You can't really look feminine when you're butt-naked and trying not to slip on wet tiles.
What's interesting is how similar women look when they're naked and their hair wet. It's funny to go to the tea-shop afterwards and see them in their make-up and clothes looking totally, completely different, made-up so to speak

mathanxiety · 07/01/2011 15:06

Everyone concerned about freshness douches regularly then?

'Freshness' article and old Lysol advert here -- there is nothing new in keeping women off balance and insecure about our bodies, selling us stuff (or services) we don't need, even encouraging practices that are really bad for us from a bacteriological pov.

LadyTremaine · 07/01/2011 15:10

roseability I think NarcolepsyQueen's post was directed at blindassasin.

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