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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Sad and also filled with impotent rage. Why aren't we allowed to age?

73 replies

glovesoflove · 15/12/2010 13:20

Why is Botox and all that crap becoming such a norm? A friend who lives in London tells me that within her social set they are all obsessed with the topic and all starting to have this shit done - she is 34 ffs, and not exactly ignorant of feminism etc. She's just said "I want to look young" so I asked why, she said "because it's nicer" but managed to avoid elaborating.
I did get a bit cross, it was on IM so maybe she thought I was having a go at her, I wasn't but when I think about it, I just think why can't she resist? She KNOWS it's rubbish, she's cleverer and way more successful than me and she's just got married and started her own company, it's not like she's "competing" for anything.
I did say the only cure for ageing is death. She changed the subject :)

I'd love to hear from some of you about this, it's really really making me angry!

OP posts:
fluffles · 15/12/2010 22:47

Grin i deliberately haven't said what i do, believe me, the stereotype is just as strong for my profession Grin

BaronessBomburst · 15/12/2010 22:50

I really don't get the aging thing - it just doesn't bother me, it really doesn't. I remember the comments I got when I turned 30, and have seen how my friends and cousins have reacted when they reached 30. Everyone thought it was such a big deal but why? My cousin suddenly thought she was too old to wear her hair in a certain style - yet she didn't look any different than she had the week before. Confused

Can somebody please rewrite that last sentence for me in proper English because I'm struggling with it.

sfxmum · 15/12/2010 23:01

see that is a big deal, there seems to be this conspiracy of myth that somehow getting older means you have to stop being who you are, who you have always been

I am ageing quite disgracefully and fully intend to carry on being as disgraceful as I have always been Xmas Grin

BaronessBomburst · 15/12/2010 23:32

Exactly!

And why do people think that you stop being who you are just because you have DC(s)? That's my biggest gripe at the moment, but this is not the time or the place. Maybe on AIBU. if I can ever be arsed. Angry

santasakura · 16/12/2010 07:59

yes, Baroness- the ego shift that I underwent when I had children will outweigh ageing, I believe. People treat you differently when you become a mother: they think they can invade your time, that you are public property, that you're XYZ . And then you hear "mothers" described as a homogenous mass and you realise they're talking about you, and yet you don' identify with that group. And you want to shout, "No, I'm me "

I'm 30 soon, and I care less about my looks than I used to. I'm going through a no-make-up at the school gates phase, which, if you knew my area, you would realise is quite radical!

TBH, from a purely aesthetic POV, I think BOtox and face-lifts look awful. MY aunt had one when I was a young teen and I remember thinking "Where's my real aunt gone"

I will try not to dye my hair as it goes grey, because I think grey hair can look very refined

Original poster
glovesoflove · 16/12/2010 13:12

I'm glad it's not just me then!

I wasn't having a go at my friend, but I am a bit disappointed with her. I dye my hair, wear makeup, love clothes, but I don't see what's so terrible about looking your age.

The "normalisation" of cosmetic surgery makes me REALLY angry (can you tell?). I have some professional experience of plastic surgery and there is nothing easy or pleasant about being cut and sewn, it has risks like any surgery and I just don't get it.

OP posts:
snowflake69 · 16/12/2010 13:36

In my area you wouldnt really see anyone dressed up its more trackies and fake uggs for the school run. Its very doubtful anyone would ever have botox or anything. I think it is a phenomenon more common in posh, middle class areas.

I also dont think you have to change at all after DCs and dont think there is any expectation to. My social life is the same and I am exactly the same person as I always was. Being a mum doesnt automatically have to change who you are if you dont want it to.

sethstarofbethlehemsmum · 16/12/2010 13:39

'My social life is the same'

EnvyEnvyEnvy
how? how do you manage that? I have no social life any more. Sad

snowflake69 · 16/12/2010 13:43

My husband looks after our daugter nearly every week so I can go out clubbing one night.

He lets me go wherever I want really so I go to my friends for pizza, cinema, pub or whatever really. I look after our daughter all day so think why shouldnt I enjoy myself when shes asleep. I couldnt stay in all the time it would drive me nuts.

aBrightStarWithFestiveWays · 16/12/2010 13:51

Maybe it depends on the role models one has? My grandmother is in her 80s, white haired and has the most beautiful skin. She is gorgeous. I remember being so happy when she stopped dying her hair black as it had started to look very fake against her skin tone. It is pure white now and lovely.

Of course she doesn't think so Hmm but she's a beautiful woman who wears her experiences honestly. My other grandma was the same. I am hoping their good genes have passed down to me Wink

If the women in your life are prone to anxiety over 'losing their looks', ageing, weight issues etc. it does tend to rub off :(

snowflake69 · 16/12/2010 13:56

'If the women in your life are prone to anxiety over 'losing their looks', ageing, weight issues etc. it does tend to rub off '

Yep thats what I said in my earlier post in this thread. My mum never bothered about all that stuff but just thinks she looks nice anyway. Thats why I always think it. It is the pattern you learnt in childhood, for how you feel about what you look like.

sfxmum · 16/12/2010 14:04

I think motherhood and all that goes with it does change you and it does change how people perceive you
but on a personal level the readjustments happen with more or more or less stress depending on circunstances but the way we come to be perceived is frankly shocking at times

I colour my hair and wear a bit of make up although not a huge fan, lines on the face seems to me to be fine and a good thing to see your life written there

I have more problem with what we are supposed to do and how we are supposed to behave
it is important to me to continue having a social life and enjoy the things I have always enjoyed

at present my child is the priority but my job (and dh's) is to nurture and give her the confidence and love to enable her to be without us
and that is it I still need to be in order to do that if that makes any sense

sfxmum · 16/12/2010 14:05

need to be me

snowflake69 · 16/12/2010 14:19

'I have more problem with what we are supposed to do and how we are supposed to behave '

why should you behave any different? As long as you spend the time your are with your kids having fun and being together then in my eyes time apart is your time to do what you like with. Wear the same stuff as before and go the same places if you want. Men wouldnt think oh I will stop going pub, doing my hobbies etc just because I have a kid/kids so why should mums?

yellowvan · 16/12/2010 14:19

Agree with Ormirian Re: grooming,plucking and the general tyranny of 'fashion'. Its all to make us keep buying stuff also isn't it: hair dye every 6 weeks,botox top-ups cos once you start..... latest fashion, duplicate aceessories to match outfitetc etc. This side annoys me almost as much as the worship of youthful appearance.

I'm generally frumpy,and that's ok with me!

sfxmum · 16/12/2010 14:31

snowflake agreed I just find it difficult that there seems to be a 'general opinion' at odds with the feeling of most people I know in the same circunstances

MarineIguana · 16/12/2010 14:41

I think there will be a major backlash as all these people who have embraced plastic surgery and botox actually get old, properly old and everyone realises they look very strange.

Totally agree avoiding the sun and having fun are the best routes to growing old beautifully. So much of what a face looks like is down to its habitual expressions. As people get older their face gets more worn but their true nature shows more it seems to me.

I do dye my hair, but to me this is like painting your nails - it doesn't hurt for a start! And I don't dye it to look young, but because I like it a certain colour and don't like the badger look from being partly grey. When it's all grey I intend to have a silvery crop a la judi dench.

What alarms me is women's terror of looking old and willingness to undergo pain and risk their health. There is nothing wrong with enjoying looking your best IMO but there is something wrong if you have to be chopped and sliced and jabbed around to do it. It's not far off foot-binding really is it.

santasakura · 17/12/2010 00:43

snowflake I, like you, tried to retain as much of my pre-baby ego and personality as possible, but that doesn't change how "mothers" are lumped together into one homogenous mass
The same goes for middle-aged women. The media regards them as has-beens, to be pitied (if any manage to get on TV), and yet the ones i know in real life seem to have more energy as they age- no childcare, many have divorced their husbands (!) and they seem to be taking life by the horns. TO hear the media tell it, they should be concentrating on their botox and face-lifts because There Is NOthing Worse than looking your age

notjustapotforsoup · 17/12/2010 00:55

Tell me, where are the female equivalents of Bruce Forsyth*, David Dimbleby, David Attenborough, Stuart Hall, Peter Allen, John Simpson, John Craven et al. Even Simon Mayo Nicky Campbell or Mark Kermode. The newreaders with greying hair and wrinkles. The men with gravitas. Where are the women with the same? They are out there, they just don't have the visibility. They myth is that it is young person's game - it's not. It is a young woman's or a man's game.

Of course women can get old, we are just expected to fade with quiet dignity somehow.

*why he ever got on prime time TV in the first place, I will never know.

ivykaty44 · 17/12/2010 01:06

love patsy far nicer than the other ole girl

santasakura · 17/12/2010 01:24

Love Judi Dench- [off topic- I watched Chocolat the other night, now that is a feminist film: independant single mother sets up her own business, takes a lover (Johnny Depp), gives house and board to a woman fleeing from DV, then along comes Judi Dench who refuses to listen to the doctor's, prefering to die early and happy... I was in heaven...]

sarah293 · 17/12/2010 03:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

sfxmum · 17/12/2010 09:31

I will be 42 soon and frankly not ready to give in and give up bugger that
feel more like renewal

all that fade away business is nonsense, besides aren't we supposed to rule the world or something? Xmas Grin

actually I feel even more like engaging more in activism I do not want all these pressures on my girl, it depresses me already to think of what she will endure as she grows up

strandedatseasonsgreetings · 17/12/2010 09:48

42 rocks - it's the age to be!

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