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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

So after my other thread. What is a feminist?

55 replies

ByThePowerOfGreyskull · 14/11/2010 11:41

what are the desired goals?

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Jazzicatz · 14/11/2010 11:43

Depends on which form of feminism you are referring too - there really is no such thing as feminism but rather feminisms!

ByThePowerOfGreyskull · 14/11/2010 11:46

are there mutual goals though?

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Jazzicatz · 14/11/2010 11:50

Equality I suppose is the central goal, but equality of what and how that equality is reached is different depending upon the particular focus of feminism.

ByThePowerOfGreyskull · 14/11/2010 11:56

who settle where equal should be though.

On a different thread there is a comment about women being "as good as men" and I agree with the poster that this suggests that men set the standard by which we are all measured.

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ByThePowerOfGreyskull · 14/11/2010 11:58

So is it more about seeing people as individuals separate from their gender?

acknowledging strengths and weaknesses of an induvidual are about them as human beings rather than Men or Women?

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Jazzicatz · 14/11/2010 11:58

Well that is why I am a radical feminist and not just liberal or socialist as I feel we need to overthrow patriarchy and start again.

ByThePowerOfGreyskull · 14/11/2010 11:59

And therefore a requiremtne to treat all others with the respect we would expect.

Rather than expecting men to treat women with respect?

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ByThePowerOfGreyskull · 14/11/2010 12:00

tell me Jazzicatz, where do you stand on all of the waffling I have been going on about.. what is it you want that makes you a radical. and can you be a radical and realistic at the same time/.

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Tortington · 14/11/2010 12:00

rights opportunities and pay.

but i see this as being a human issue, not one that falls under feminism, which is why i never got it

becuase then femenists come on and say that the rights of men to have the same rights as women in certain areas is also feminism, that feminism isn't limited to gender, that race and age come into it to.

so then i always start wondering ....if feminism is fighting for equality for all people - whts the difference between that and other ideologies that do the same?

so i never got it.

becuase my argument with feminism has always been that there are more inequalities in the world than gender inequality, and then i get told that feminists fight for inquality - no matter who the inequality pertains to ....i'm confused.com.

dittany · 14/11/2010 12:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Jazzicatz · 14/11/2010 12:03

Don't think you are waffling at all.
I am a radical feminist, and for me that means that I want to get to the root cause of the oppression of women, which I believe is patriarchy. If we can overthrow patriarchy and really introduce equality, that would be beneficial for all.

ByThePowerOfGreyskull · 14/11/2010 12:03

I think I am in agreement with you Custardo, I have always been confused about where feminism comes into by beliefs about equality and fairness for all.

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dittany · 14/11/2010 12:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

wukter · 14/11/2010 12:07

I would agree with your definition of 11:58, Greyskull.

But Custardo that could apply to any movement really. Antracism, antihomophobia for example. Every group has the right do fight injustices that apply to them particularly.
You would never say to an eye surgeon - you don't care about the deaf! It's about focus.

ByThePowerOfGreyskull · 14/11/2010 12:07

dittany do you really believe that men generally have it better than women? I truly believe that for some men the system works in their favor but I do believe that there alot of men that would benefit greatly from a less testosterone fueled system. The pressure on men to be bought up believing they have to be able to "hack it" to live up to this twisted view of a superman who doesn't need/want to have a softer side.

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wukter · 14/11/2010 12:08

X-posts dittany.
I suppose I did learn all that from you....

ByThePowerOfGreyskull · 14/11/2010 12:09

I now understand and the focus is important yes. with an understanding that for a group like "save the children" often have to deal with the environment the child is living in, in order to be able to help the children they are focusing on.

(Does that make ANY sense at all??)

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wukter · 14/11/2010 12:13

I personally do believe it Greyskull, but again it's about focus. Even if men and women had an equally shite time, feminists should still try to right their own particular wrongs. If men want they can fight theirs too.

I think freeing men from their own gender based crap will be a happy side effect of feminists struggle to end stereotypes etc.

wukter · 14/11/2010 12:14

The big picture is just too big Greyskull. You have to specialise.

ByThePowerOfGreyskull · 14/11/2010 12:15

got to go for now but will be back

thanks ladies any more ideas contributions for thought greatfully recieved.

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dittany · 14/11/2010 12:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sakura · 14/11/2010 12:46

The men who lose out to other men under this system gain a lot by the way the system automatically puts them above women.

Even a man who is the dregs of society can make himself feel better by buying a woman for an hour to do what he likes with.
Or he might take his low position out on his spouse.

Even the wealthiest, most powerful woman probably won't be believed in court if she's raped, for example, especially if she knew the guy beforehand, or if he's her husband.

Not all men oppress women on an individual level, but that for every man in dire straits, there is a woman suffering just as much, with the added disadvantage of being a woman, and all the problems that come with that: productive responsiblities, primary carer for children/disabled/elderly, less chance of promotion, less chance of even getting a good job in the first place, losing out on pensions/pay because of pregnancy (workplaces can find pretexts not to hire a pregnant woman for example). That's before you get to gendered violence against women, lack of representation in politics (although they're happy to take our taxes)...

Sakura · 14/11/2010 12:51

To answer the OP, I would say equal representation in parliament and equal access to financial resources (as opposed to men simply just being a lot richer because they're men) would be a good start

SupposedToBeWorking · 14/11/2010 12:52
TeiTetua · 14/11/2010 12:55

No. The "most fundamental measure" is who's alive, and it's women who have the last laugh. Some of the difference is biology, but plenty of it is behaviour; if men thought it was worth living longer, they could change their ways.