Ruin your favourite books/films with a spot of feminist analysis

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

Got thinking about this on another thread where I was wittering talking cleverly about the problems I have with Bridget Jones's Diary (the book, the problem with the film is that stuffy faced plonker Firth).

One of her boyfriends is a total cheating dickhead, obviously. But the "nice" one, Mark Darcy, is incredibly patronising towards her, repeatedly "rescuing" her because he wants to fuck her. Which is all well and good, but whereas in Pride and Prejudice (the origin of BJD) Darcy has a lot of respect for the female protagonist, which she earns by being smart, witty, standing up for herself etc, BJD removes that whole side of her. When she stands up for herself it is something she later apologises for.

Anyway - anyone else want to join me?

Actually, this isn't a book or film but is still outrageous. There was an ad for the Post Office a few years ago where a slightly careworn Mum reminded her teenage/grown-up children that it was Dad's birthday. She rang the daughter, who said 'Oh, yes, I've got a card, will just post it.'

She then rang the son, saying ... (something along the lines of):

^'I expect you've forgotten it's Dad's birthday. I've got a card for you, do you want to come round and sign it before I post it?'

This was only about five years ago. How are the men of this generation ever supposed to grow up and think for themselves?

E&M, Im not a fan of "man rescues woman" films or literature at all. I went to Disneyland, Paris with some friends (and their children) long before I had DD. There is a "Princess Parade" and I said, rather too loudly, "Oh yes, feed another generation the line that their lives are only complete when the handsome prince arrives. Load of romantic claptrap..." Not well received, really but it felt sooooo good to say it!

PS Agree Mimi was a total wimp, but she couldn't make herself any gloves - her tiny hands were frozen

I have only seen Pretty Woman once about 15 years ago but IIRC one of Richard Gere's colleague's asks her about doing a bit of 'business' with him and she gets offended??? Bizarre.

The sexual politics of most romances (films / books) are totally weird but I don't want to read a book or see a film that is about two healthy well-adjusted equals forming a mutually fulfilling supportive relationship. What's good in real life just doesn't make good art or entertainment. FWIW I think Mike Leigh and Pedro Almodovar (and Hitchcock - flame if you like on that one) create amazing female characters but you could hardly accuse them of depicting positive role models or being totally unproblematic in their depiction of relationships or gender.

In feminist film criticism there is a lot of work on the female viewer 'reading' the film against the ending or conclusion and finding strength in dominant film characters despite the fact they are 'contained' (in death or marriage) at the end. This is what I think readers find in films from Bette David melodramas to Dirty Dancing, Grease, Titanic etc. The strength and journey of the character is more important than how the narrative takes her.

Anyway - it's been a long time since I did my degree and my brain is mush from a long day. Hope I make some sense.

PS: in GWTW I am troubled, less by the Rhett rape, than the fact the whole book (and the film to a lesser extent) is one long apologia for slavery and the KKK. This still hasn't lodged it from its position in my top ten all time favourites

CJ - just snorted my tea... Never considered that aspect before!

But it never occurred to me that she was a seamstress. Lovely point. If I ever see La Boheme again I shall stand up and shout 'make yourself some fucking gloves, you wet bint!' and never darken the doors of Covent Garden again.

Just laughed so loud that DD is asking me what's so funny!

I'm not so bothered about female characters being positive role models. I just would like them to be something other than a plot device for the man's leading role. I loved Notes From A Scandal despite disliking the characters, for example. And yes, I think the same about a lot of the Mike Leigh characters.

I would love to see The Graduate from the pov of Mrs Robinson. I bet there are loads of films, like Casablanca, that would be really interesting if the lead pov was changed.

Have you not seen Barb Wire NotJust? Casablanca storyline with Pamela Anderson in the Bogart role?

BelleDame, tell her the story of the silly lady who died because she didn't wear gloves. Come to think of it, I might tell my DD that one, too. (And the one about the equally silly lady who never zipped up her coat ...)

On a slightly less depressing note, I loved the fact that in the Forsyte Saga that abusive cockend Soames is alienated by nearly his whole family for raping his wife, and she - instead of dying or falling in love with him as is traditional - gets shot of him and sets up with his much nicer relative.

Brief Encounter - woman dithers over whether to live her life submerged in her husband and children, or just submerged in some good-works-doing heroic doctor.

Woody Allen's Manhattan - let's just not go there.

I find it really weird that she refers to her own hands as tiny. Always imagine her getting into quite a knot trying to look at her own hands through the wrong end of a telescope.

in fact, Woody Allen's entire oeuvre: geeky unattractive and immature man gets unfeasibly unattractive (but insecure) woman despite having nothing whatsoever to recommend him. Male wish-fulfilment or what....

aargh, I meant unfeasibly attractive woman, duh.

CJ - You're on a roll!

Go on ssm - I've never seen Manhattan - need a condensed film review.

I loathe Woody Allen and all his works. Not funny; not clever; and so bloody self indulgent.

And to add to the ITNG discussion - I think gender roles depicted on CBeebies are almost uniformly stereotypical. Boys like trains and cars. Girls like clothes and dancing. In almost every pre-school programme the main characters are male with one or two token women.

Zingzillas - 4 of the lead females are MUTE or never talk properly leaving just one with a voice (and the voice of Sarah-Jane Honeywell to boot)
Timmy Time
Octonauts
Chuggington (in one episode the lazy annoying boy train did a race with the bright hard-working girl train and the moral was that it was better to be a plodder than ambitious and diligent - DH hated me for ranting about that all morning. )
Bob the Builder

I think Justin Fletcher in drag is holding up the strong female character side of things single handedly!

divorced scriptwriter in his 40s with 17 year old girlfriend; ball-breaking feminist ex-wife IIRC.
but it's in black and white, which means despite the paedophilia it is Great Art.
(I mean, she's 17 so technically it's not paedophilia, but it reminds me a bit of the chapter in the Gail Dines porn book about porn where the girl is older but there is lots of stuff to signal her being child-like)

Scent of a woman- shite.

Also think 'feminist' characters written by men are often not feminist at all - take Samantha of SITC; sexually liberated? Or man's object?

I find her interesting from a feminist point of view because I enjoyed the fact she was never punished by 'the writers for her active sex life.

But I think she became a sort of eye rolling, lip smacking, parody of herself towards the end of the series.

I HATED the film which was so laboured, so awful it was embarrassing. The conclusion was that all women really want yo do is fuck and shop.

Mama Mia - a film supposedly about women, with massive amounts of screen time for women, still managing to be all about a man.

I loved Woody Allen films when I was a teenager
Now I just think 'oh grow up'

Didn't they give Samantha cancer, CD? I don't mind Samantha. I would just like more options than "wants to get married and wear a big stupid dress" and "total sex obsessive with no other interests".

I had never thought of it like that notjust. Too busy enjoying all those grown up women having a good time. But you're right.