Ruin your favourite books/films with a spot of feminist analysis

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

Got thinking about this on another thread where I was wittering talking cleverly about the problems I have with Bridget Jones's Diary (the book, the problem with the film is that stuffy faced plonker Firth).

One of her boyfriends is a total cheating dickhead, obviously. But the "nice" one, Mark Darcy, is incredibly patronising towards her, repeatedly "rescuing" her because he wants to fuck her. Which is all well and good, but whereas in Pride and Prejudice (the origin of BJD) Darcy has a lot of respect for the female protagonist, which she earns by being smart, witty, standing up for herself etc, BJD removes that whole side of her. When she stands up for herself it is something she later apologises for.

Anyway - anyone else want to join me?

Ahem, BelleDame, the whole point of this thread was that we owned up to the places where our treasured stories did not quite stand up to feminist analysis. If we start giving things a pass because we have fond memories of snogging Jason from 5B in the back row of the Ritzy then it all falls apart!

How did I miss this thread?! How?

Anyway - I absolutely love Much Ado and I would happily run off into the sunset with Beatrice or Benedick. But I do find it makes me shudder when productions gloss over some of the dodgy bits. Right at the end, when Beatrice and Benedick are all loved up, she starts flirting with him again and he says 'Peace, I will stop your mouth'. And that's it, she doesn't get to speak again.

There's also some dialogue that's used both in Richard III with the women he's forcing to marry him, and in Much Ado with B&B. Creepy.

(Sorry, I sound like a huge nerd but I've just been trying to teach this to someone who's only seen the rom-com version.)

Yeah, but Seven, at least we know Measure for Measure is sexist and nasty. I'm more bothered by finding that the same lines (slightly recycled) don't need re-writing when they're used for the man who forces women, and for the 'romantic hero'. I do like my Shakespeare and I am aware that this should be read in the context of his time - what annoys me is that it's not taught it schools.

If you wanted to teach Shakespeare and get into feminist issues, it would be very easy. It would be easy to argue that male characters come across very badly when they are being at all sexist. It would be nice if that were taught.

Much Ado has some lovely bits, but the main incident is all about a woman's virginity. And as part of their scheme, the conspirators got a maidservant involved in a sexual incident and we're left to think that she was "no better than she should be". It's not all fun.

I saw the RSC's 2003 Taming of the Shrew and thought that was an interesting take on it.

I have never seen Pretty WOman, Dirty Dancing, SATC etc. Because I have no interest in seeing them- my idea of a good film is one with zombies, explosions, car chases or at least a decent rock soundtrack.

So, of my favourites, erm, sadly neither pass the Bechdel Test (the Lost Boys and Velvet Goldmine) but the Lost BOys is kind of interesting from a feminist viewpoint in that it's basicaly all about looking at sexy men engaging in homoerotic bonding (which is something a lot of straight women rather like)- the camera lingers endlessly on male torsos, males looking moody in misty lighting, males being quite passive too. OK if you watch it now you might well be going 'Pah, mullets and hairspray' but I saw it when it came out and slobbered with delight all the way through.
Same for Velvet Goldmine though there'sa lot more stuff about liberation, represion etc going on there.

The thing is, if they avoid Smurfette casting then zombie movies are a shoe-in for passing the Bechdel test, because by and large female characters are not going to sit around discussing men while a horde of ravening zombies attempt to eat them. So given at least two named female characters neither of whom get eaten in the first ten minutes, you should be home and dry Bechdel-wise.

off topic, but has anyone seen that amazing film "Set it off". It's quite old now. Four black women in America and just all about how the entire system is set up against women.

What was Taming of the Shrew like?

Buffy was mentioned upthread, I always felt that not having a successful relationship was more down to her youth than her strength. There is an episode in Angel where Angel and Spike rush off to Italy for some reason (returning a head to it's body?!), but really, because they both want to see Buffy. She chooses neither of them in the end, because she is off having fun shagging someone else and being carefree.

at far to much knowledge of BTVS and Angel

ahh but if you read the comics it turns out that wasn't actually Buffy

:o at Buffy nerdism on this thread. I love it. I never watched Buffy but loved the buffy - v - Edward video mentioned earlier ()

Happily admits to being a total geek

I'm sorry

I got all confused

"you know, being stalked isn't really a turn on for girls" - hallelujah Buffy! Loved the post underneath the video that says "Be a Buffy, not a Bella" :o

Buffy 'season 8' :)

I have not yet recovered from The Jungle Book, where Mowgli, having had numerous liberating adventures and worldly learning in the forest makes his way into the human world via a small girl who will slave for him:

My own home, my own home
My own home, my own home

Father's hunting in the forest
Mother's cooking in the home
I must go to fetch the water
'Til the day that I'm grown
'Til I'm grown, 'til I'm grown
I must go to fetch the water
'Til the day that I'm grown

Then I will have a handsome husband
And a daughter of my own
And I'll send her to fetch the water
I'll be cooking in the home
Then I'll send her to fetch the water
I'll be cooking in the home.

Reverting to the "stuff we love but please don't mention the gender politics" theme, I've just finished the box set of Season 6 of House, at the end of which the divine Lisa Cuddy ditches her fiancé, leaves the baby with the nanny (who must be racking up awe-inspiring amounts of overtime) and turns up in House's bathroom to announce that "I love you. I wish I didn't, but I do" Snog, swoon, aaaah.

Damn you Hugh Laurie and your blue eyes and sensitive musical hands, because this is Not OK! House has treated Cuddy like shit from day 1, he has consistently used sexist abuse to belittle her, he's an addict, he uses prostitutes.....I could go on for pages. The occasional nice gesture in amongst the abuse as a cue to the diamond heart amid the asshole exterior is heartwarming in films but a recipe for catastrophe when used as a guide to actual men.

There is some good stuff in House though, and Cuddy is a goddess, and I haven't seen series 7, so feel free to convince me I'm wrong.

Cruel Intentions is even more repugnant, overtly made as it is for the randy teen male who gets off on forbidden anality and girls tongue-kissing.

Oh, and did I mention John Hughes' teen movies?

Abusive male gets girl because he's depraved only on account of he's deprived (The Breakfast Club).

Sexy kiss from Charlie Sheen convinces a girl that it's ok for her parents blaatantly to favour her breother (Ferris Bueller). Test audiences again - fidelity means less to girls that beauty and a cool car (Pretty in Pink).

But I kinda love Watts in Some Kind of Wonderful so I'm keeping that one.

Did I mention action-adventure from Lethal Weapon right to Casino Royale? Don't get too keen on sex, girls! You're doomed if you do. Pah.

:o "Damn you Hugh Laurie and your blue eyes and sensitive musical hands, because this is Not OK!"

I know - he is an arse. Yet he is very interesting...

While we're on doctors - did anyone else watch Green Wing? I love/want to be Doctor Macartney but he does treat Caroline sooo badly. Teasing her, allowing her to be humiliated etc etc etc before finally getting his act together only in the direst of circumstances.

I like Pretty in Pink. I did wonder if it sneak past this thread but no...