So what would need to happen for women to report rape and get convictions?

[sethstarkaddersmum]

?

what would need to change?
And how could it be got to change?

I'll start.

1. stricter guidelines on what you can ask a victim when cross-examining her and these guidelines actually being followed

1. better provision of rape crisis centres

Million dollar question, but as a start:

A properly funded campaign encouraging people to i) recognise what rape is and ii) reassuring people that complaints will be taken seriously. Start it in the schools - police explaining to children what is not acceptable (I am thinking sex assualts rather than rape at this stage). Somehow we are living in a society where swathes of girls have got the impression that boys grabbing their arses is OK; and boys think that following girls around town and catcalling is "flirting". It's not and it needs to be spelt out

Have specially trained officers on hand to deal with any complaint immediately - rape victims should not have to explain their attack to whoever is on fron desk before they "get through the gate". Instead people need to be able to visit the police station and ask to see someone from the rape unit and that happens immediately.

The deeper problems are the ingrained attitudes. I have no idea how you attack those but as a starting point the police have to take the position that an offence has been committed and they need to investigate.

I can't think of any other crime where people seem to think that giving any credence to the victim when she reports, is tantamount to locking a man up without trial.

I thought Elephants' point (can't remember if it was this thread or a different one, sorry) about training was an excellent one: these days being 'trained' often just means you have sat in a room and been talked at, it doesn't mean you have actually learned anything or changed your attitude. Police 'trained' to deal with rape victims really do have to buy into what they're doing.

There is a problem here with the remit of the police isn't there, the fundamental reason they were created

ie to act as a deterrant to crime, and to gather evidence when crimes are comitted with a view to arresting someone.

Al the way their performance is measured is to do with that.

They are not equipped to offer appropriate support to victims, there is no incentive to record crimes that they are unlikely to be able to "solve". They are not set up in any way to offer a service of listening and understanding and taking a record for information which might lead them to build up a picture about someone and arrest them later. They see that as a waste of their time.

So fundamentally you would need to change what the police are for, and change their remit.

Because if something has happened to you, and you don't want to prosecute, there is no point whatsoever in telling the police and by definition they won't be interested, that's not what they're there for.

That's wrong, surely.

I don't entirely agree ISNT. I think dealing with rape victims sensitively, recording crime where there is no chance of a prosecution in that particular case, can all be seen as intermediate stages towards 'the fundamental reason they were created ie to act as a deterrant to crime, and to gather evidence when crimes are comitted with a view to arresting someone.'

but targets distort processes; by putting too much emphasis on them getting good conviction rates they are encouraged to keep the number of recorded crimes as low as possible, because the easiest way to keep the rates up is to make sure there are as few recorded crimes as possible.

all you would need to do would be to give them a new target of 'absolute numbers of rapes reported' and they would bend over backwards to make sure they get a report wherever they could and to be sensitive so women aren't put off making that report.

(though targets being what they are no doubt there would be some other negative unintended consequence from them doing that)

I've had Helena Kennedy's book 'Who Framed Eve' on my to read pile for a long time. I picked it up last night and read the chapter on rape. It is incredible and I urge everyone to read it. The whole system is rotten to the core.

I'll read it again later and try to summarise it. Even I was shocked.

Oh, just remembered that Helena Kennedy's book is actually called 'Eve Was Framed' and not what I wrote above.

She was brilliant at the Feminism in London conference. I want to be like her when I grow up

Would be great to hear a summary. I've got too much on at the mo to read the book.

maybe a good one for Feminist Book Club some time next year.

I've had it in my Amazon basket for ages but will order it now.