So what would need to happen for women to report rape and get convictions?

[sethstarkaddersmum]

?

what would need to change?
And how could it be got to change?

I'll start.

1. stricter guidelines on what you can ask a victim when cross-examining her and these guidelines actually being followed
   

1. better provision of rape crisis centres

[QueenGigantaurofMnet]

Anyfucker - the barrister was intimating that she knew he would be coming over and so wore deliberately provoctative undies.

they were bog standard pretty patterned pants

the poor girl was utterly mortified.

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

I think the police could start off by ensuring that the people who deal with rape victims are not only "trained" as they always say they are, but have actually learnt something and have been tested on their interview techniques and reactions. Training too often IME just means "sitting in a room and being talked at".

[AnyFucker]

that is shit, gig

[vesuvia]

nancydrewrocked wrote - "These cases nearly always result in acquitals, not because the evidence does not exist but because the jury has apparently adopted something of a pragmatic approach."

Can you give some examples of "something of a pragmatic approach" please?

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

It's making me feel cross that there are so so many women and girls sitting round tonight worrying about whether the legal system actually exists to protect them at all. It's our country too FFS

IIRC the Home Office estimates 2000 women a week are raped. So what those figures show is that the legal system procedes in one week's worth of rape cases, in a whole year.

BTW what is the definition of "proceded against"?

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

are there figures on how many reports there are?

[nancydrewrocked]

vesuvia for example a mother who has clearly stolen something (in one particular case PTA funds) blamed it on her ex partner. There was no evidence that ex p had anything to do with it, in fact fairly incontrovertible evidence that he had absolutely nothing to do with it.

However she was a sympathetic character - obviously going through a difficult time, had been ostracised and bullied since the offence was uncovered and both her life and that of her DD had been made extrememly difficult. The evidence was there in spades but the jury didn't convict, the general consensus was that the jury didn't want to kick the woman whilst she was down.

So strictly speaking you are right - jurors are only supposed to consider the evidence and guilt but anecdotal evdence suggests they don't.

[nancydrewrocked]

E&A I don't think you will ever get accurate figures on reports of rape since anecdotal evidence suggests that numerous woman are not permitted to report rape i.e. they turn up a police station and describe what has happened and are simply told that there is no crime, or that it will be impossible to prove so they are asked to "go away and think about" whether they really want to pursue the matter etc etc.

[nancydrewrocked]

Should have added there is a difference between what a victim might consider a report i.e. calling the police and saying I have been raped and what the police consider to be a report i.e and official recording of an offence having taken place. Sorry didn't make that terribly clear.

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

interesting nancy, thanks. Do the police do that for all crimes?

[notjustapotforsoup]

Surely a jury should be there to decide whether the defendent did the crime or not? And the judge decides on severity of the sentence, within guidelines. I am clearly naive.

[nancydrewrocked]

Certainly the ones that they are never going to get a conviction. Try reporting a bike or mobile phone as stolen in central London - you might as well ask for the moon.

Skews the conviction rates you see....

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

What would they say to someone reporting a bike stolen for instance? Are they literally allowed to say "you must be joking, on yer - alternative form of transport"?

[nancydrewrocked]

This is all anecdotal of course but usually one of two approaches is taken.

Either the "are you sure it was stolen?" approach which involves being asked such gems as "can you prove it?" "are you sure you didn't forget where you left it?" "perhaps someone borrowed it" etc etc.

or the "this is going to cause you a lot of hassle" approach which in the first instance can be an invitation to come back to make a statement at an inconvenient time, pointing out that there is no one available to take your statement and that you will just have to wait until there is, letting you know that the likelihood of them finding the theif is non existent and just a general discouragement from wasting your own time etc etc

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

That is awful I have had friends asked "are you sure you didn't forget where you left it?" and thought they must have got a particularly dense officer.


But what's really scary is that this continues from minor crimes like mobile and bike theft to serious crimes like rape(and aren't we always being told how serious rape is, in the context of "we can't convict men for it ever and ruin their lives!").

Seriously the police needs a huge overhaul.

[nancydrewrocked]

Quite. The problem with reporting rape is, as others have pointed out, that in addition to a lack of willingness to take reports of crimes that are unlikely to be solved there does appear to be an ingrained mentality that rape doesn't happen frequently.

An addititional issue is that of the "type" of person who is most likely to report a rape. Rape is more often committed against the most vulnerable members of our society: the drug users, prostitutes, girls in care etc etc. There is sadly, in my experience, an institutional lack of empathy with woman in those positions. I have on more than on occasion been told by a police officer words to the effect that "it is not as if it was someone like you that got raped".

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

SO nancy what should the police be doing IYO to improve their responses? Clearly something radical.