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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

I've just lost my job...

73 replies

happiestblonde · 18/10/2010 11:21

Because I'm 'too emotional'.

Okay... I work in an all male office and over the 6 weeks I've been there I cried once - no noise, no fuss, a couple of silent tears that i very quickly cleaned up - but my boss called me in to his office to see the problem, I told him I was just a bit concerned that I wouldn't progress as quickly as I want to but since then have been fine.

Today I was called in and fired with no explanation aside I am 'too emotional' so it won't work out. This is shite and now I'm double guessing myself and couldn't express any emotion as they fired me because that would just prove them right.

I thought fair enough, I must be, fuck this is awful... but my lovely DP who is an instinctive feminist thinks that clearly the company expanded too quickly (true) and as I was taken on at a higher basic than the men who were at the same time (I have a Masters degree and better past experience) they are cutting costs and throwing the standard line men can always throw at women that they cannot respond to without looking hysterical. He is livid, I just feel sick.

Any thoughts? I am not trying to claim that I am wonderful and they shouldn't have fired me, just trying to make sense of a horrible and unexpected situation.

OP posts:

sethstarkaddersmummyreturns · 18/10/2010 16:09

oh congratulations on the interviews tomorrow.
It will probably turn out to be a blessing in disguise in the long term. You don't want to work with that bunch of twats, you really don't.

Original poster

happiestblonde · 18/10/2010 16:10

you're right I know but the rejection feels awful

OP posts:

sethstarkaddersmummyreturns · 18/10/2010 16:14

of course. but people lose jobs all the time and they get through it.
It is not a pleasant place to be in but you will be through it, and happier again, soon.
Tomorrow you can be charming on the surface and hard-bitten and cynical underneath . Remember you exceeded your targets, you were good your job. Them being sexist twats is a completely independent factor.

BeenBeta · 18/10/2010 16:22

I am not sure this is discrimination and frankly given it was only a 6 week contract even if you won the case at a Tribunal it would not be worth the effort.

For what it is worth, it is commonplace in recruitment industry to hire people, pump them for their contacts and then dump them after a short probation period. I think that is more likely that is what happened.

DeadPoncy · 18/10/2010 16:24

"hire people, pump them for their contacts and then dump them after a short probation period"

Breathtakingly cynical behaviour!

Original poster

happiestblonde · 18/10/2010 16:42

Yeah. I am definitely retaining my contacts though - they were with me not my shitty ex-company and once I calmed down earlier I emailed a single individual at each company that I knew/trusted best and to the ones I know well I told them I had left *** for various reasons and shall be in touch when I have finalised which consultancy I am joining - I hope that, given that all their dealings were with me, they will be happy to retain me as their consultant and continue our working relationship from here. The others I arranged coffees with so we can chat without it being on paper.

OP posts:

frakkinstein · 18/10/2010 17:09

Evilants I don't think it would qualify as discrimination given that they could fire a man for the same thing. It's not been explicitly linked to being female, especially given that the OP did actually cry in the workplace.

I'd be interested to hear their exact reasoning but really you could fire anyone for being overly emotional if it were detrimental to the working environment.

To me it seems more like they were looking for an excuse to get rid of someone and picked up on that.

The fact it's a flimsy excuse and being emotional could be linked to being a woman just wouldn't stand up IMO. If they'd said it's cos you're an emotional woman oranything else that mentioned woman then yes definitely. But it wasn't mentioned. A trait which happens to be associated with women was given as the reason instead.

Good luck with your interview tomorrow! The job in parliament sounds like it must have been fun

sethstarkaddersmummyreturns · 18/10/2010 17:20

It would be indirect discrimination though wouldn't it? E&M's link says:

'Indirect discrimination applies to policies and practices which, in reality, disadvantage one gender considerably more than another although on the face of it, they seem to apply to both sexes equally.
To prove indirect discrimination, Tribunals have to consider four questions:

? Has the employer imposed a provision, criterion or practice?
? Does it put women at a particular disadvantage when compared with men?
? Does it disadvantage that woman?
? Can the employer show that the provision, criterion or practice is proportionate to the aim they are trying to achieve?'

I think you'd really need a lawyer to say whether anything would stand up or not.

ISNT · 18/10/2010 17:25

Depends whether she was overly emotional or not surely.

If she was then it's fair.
if she wasn't then it's unfair and poss sexist (as the reason they are making up for letting her go is a stereotypical female trait and also something it is nigh on impossible to argue with).

TBH I don't go in for crying at work and don't like to see it, but by the same token I don't go in for aggression/anger and don't like to see that either. It's all unprofessional.

ISNT · 18/10/2010 18:08

Should point out there that I don't think that the odd tear at work is a sackable offense! More that if someone was bursting into tears every time they moved it would be an issue!

Original poster

happiestblonde · 18/10/2010 18:22

Just to reiterate... again...

2 or 3 tears, no crying, no noise, no fuss, only one person who's sat 2 inches away from me saw.

I don't make the habit of crying all over my desk and it definitely did not disrupt anyone else.

OP posts:

EvilAntsAndMiasmas · 18/10/2010 18:34

Sorry happiest - did they actually mention the crying this morning? Or give any details of the "over-emotional" justification?

claig · 18/10/2010 18:41

happiestblonde, good luck to you tomorrow.
Don't let it cause you to doubt yourself. Find a firm with nice people, hopefully not one full of snake oil salesmen. In business, being a nice person counts, customers and clients prefer to deal with nice people. Nice people are sensitive, emotional and intelligent.

I usually left jobs of my own choice, but I was fired unexpectedly once, but I was a freelance consultant and so it could happen at any time. It was a complete shock, and when I got into the cab to go home, I felt half dead as if I was just observing the world going by in slow motion. It did knock me for a while, because I questioned what I had done wrong. But it was cost cutting, which may also be the real reason in your case. You are too good to work for people like that. Relax now and leave it to fate. Fate will lead you to a job where the people are good and deserve to have you as part of the team.

Original poster

happiestblonde · 18/10/2010 19:03

Thank you Claig. I really don't know how I'm going to muster the energy/will to sell myself back into a job I probably hated anyway (every single person I've told who knows me has said it's a good thing and they can't believe I was in the industry anyway) but I need the money.

Evil - no they didn't they just said the last 3 weeks (not sure why 3 weeks, not 2, 4 or 6) had been an emotional rollercoaster - which was news to me.

OP posts:

whomovedmychocolate · 18/10/2010 19:13

You know, I don't think you can do a single thing about this but to be clear on this you do not know why they fired you whatever bollocks they told you.

Within the first year it generally is does the MD like the look of you etc. and frankly, if they are that poisonous, you are better off out of there.

You are too good for their shit and they have recognised this. Don't let this break your confidence. Sometimes it is just the wrong environment for you, and you have to walk away and start again. And sometimes it's a blessing because the next job is a whole heap better.

Everyone is jumpy right now in the corporate world because of Wednesday's announcements and I'll bet most businesses are looking at ways they can cut their costs if the changes to businesses are extreme (and they may well be).

Hang on to your dignity, you did not tell them to fuck off or deck any of them, or cry. And they are the sort of wankers you would ignore in a bar, so why are you worried? :)

EvilAntsAndMiasmas · 18/10/2010 23:23

Lovely post WMMC. Esp fond of " you did not tell them to fuck off or deck any of them" - you really should have, OP, and got your money's worth :o

ccpccp · 19/10/2010 10:48

The recruitment industry is full of nasty ba5tards.

Dont take it to heart OP - the manager just said the first thing that came to mind. He needed to cut someone.

omaoma · 19/10/2010 10:58

Christ the place that sacked you sounds like a sack full of t*ssers. What they did to you is seriously unethical, discriminatory and their 'reason' for sacking you entirely unfounded - even if it's not for some technical reason illegal to get rid of somebody on the probationary period without any sort of written warning.

Please don't take their view of you on: you are well out of there, put it in the mental file marked 'c*nts i won't have to see again' and forget ALL about it. Horrendous that this is the world we live in, that it's not worth your while to challenge them. They may as well have given you a grope on the way out and told you you weren't wearing short enough skirts to work there...

Original poster

happiestblonde · 19/10/2010 14:36

So - interviews today went really well. I also went to a different rec2rec company who was astonished I had been put forward for an interview ever at my own company and told me it's common knowledge they're sinking.

Feeling so much better now and definitely realised I'm better out. The places I'm being put forward for now are in a different industry within recruitment with better firms and doing headhunting not contingency.

Thank you all so much for being so supportive, this time yesterday I was in pieces and now I'm very happy, lots of that's down to all of you :)

OP posts:

Original poster

happiestblonde · 19/10/2010 14:36

own* - meant old. oops.

OP posts:

PavlovtheWitchesCat · 19/10/2010 14:43

sex discrimination. implication that your gender impairs your ability to do your job. it is statutory sex discrimination. it is illegal, no matter how long you have worked for them, 2 days or 2 years. It is their responsibility to prove they did not fire you for that reason, not yours to prove it happened.

employers can fire you for whatever they like within the first 12 ^months, but NOT for statutory discrimination (race, gender, sexual orientation, age, disability)

get legal advice and sue them.

claig · 19/10/2010 15:35

Fantastic news, happiestblonde. Good luck with the rest of the search and thank God you got out of the other place early.

DeadPoncy · 19/10/2010 15:54

Great news.

Do hassle the old place for your pay, though, especially if they are "sinking". You can take pleasure in the idea that you are taking money out of the company. Don't forget your commission, either!

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