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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

I've just lost my job...

73 replies

happiestblonde · 18/10/2010 11:21

Because I'm 'too emotional'.

Okay... I work in an all male office and over the 6 weeks I've been there I cried once - no noise, no fuss, a couple of silent tears that i very quickly cleaned up - but my boss called me in to his office to see the problem, I told him I was just a bit concerned that I wouldn't progress as quickly as I want to but since then have been fine.

Today I was called in and fired with no explanation aside I am 'too emotional' so it won't work out. This is shite and now I'm double guessing myself and couldn't express any emotion as they fired me because that would just prove them right.

I thought fair enough, I must be, fuck this is awful... but my lovely DP who is an instinctive feminist thinks that clearly the company expanded too quickly (true) and as I was taken on at a higher basic than the men who were at the same time (I have a Masters degree and better past experience) they are cutting costs and throwing the standard line men can always throw at women that they cannot respond to without looking hysterical. He is livid, I just feel sick.

Any thoughts? I am not trying to claim that I am wonderful and they shouldn't have fired me, just trying to make sense of a horrible and unexpected situation.

OP posts:
Original poster
happiestblonde · 18/10/2010 12:33

They promised to give me glowing references saying I left them if that's what I want and I don't want to ruin that and don't have the stomach for a fight, and it's within 3 months. I feel like following it up would be proving them right and make me seem bitter - I think I need to just learn from it, take their references and find a new job.

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frakkinstein · 18/10/2010 12:34

Working in HR you'd know that technically they didnt have to provide you with your written statement of employment/contract for 2 months. Personally I won't take a job without a signed contract but they've not done anything illegal as far as I can see...just not very ethical.

Without an actual contract you're reliant on the statutory legislation which means they can basically fire you for any reason they feel like firing you for in the first year. Shit but legal.

I agree you need the reason you're being 'let go' in writing. Get someone to do an exit appraisal with you as well and insist on a reference.

DeadPoncy · 18/10/2010 12:44

"They promised to give me glowing references saying I left them if that's what I want and I don't want to ruin that and don't have the stomach for a fight, and it's within 3 months. I feel like following it up would be proving them right and make me seem bitter - I think I need to just learn from it, take their references and find a new job."

However, so many places do "without prejudice" references these days that a new employer might not even notice the lack of a "glowing reference". I had a temp job in an HR department once, in which I was told on Day 1 that I would be writing "without prejudice" references. I just had to sit down with the requests, the employment files, and write to a template. It felt utterly fraudulent, but as it was an HR department, I had to accept it was legal. The head of HR signed them off, after all.

With such impersonal reference practices around, you don't have to feel pressured. If you feel this is a bribe, you don't have to accept it. They worst they can do is an impersonal reference (which isn;t even that bad); they can't write an untrue or inappropriate bad one. And saying you are "emotional" in a reference would be even more inappropriate than letting you go with that as the stated reason!

I'm not trying to wind you up or built up your sense of entitlement falsely, but this behaviour is just not on, and they have to be told. As E&M says, you might resent it for years, and that is a very big hangover for a 6 week job!

EvilAntsAndMiasmas · 18/10/2010 12:47

What despite the sex discrimination rules frakkin?

Surely being let go "because we don't like having a woman in the room" would be illegal at this point? Just as "because Asians aren't part of our company image" would be?

And this is the thinnest possible code for "because you're a woman".

If not - bloody hell.

sethstarkaddersmummyreturns · 18/10/2010 12:47

' I feel like following it up would be proving them right and make me seem bitter '

with respect though HappiestBlonde, that bit of your post is rubbish and just shows they've got to you!
That is exactly what they want you to feel. That is why it is a very effective bullying tactic and a fairly typical one in all sorts of abuse scenarios. Why should you have an obligation to be all smiley-smiley grovelly 'yes you're right I am a piece of shit' about it?

I can really sympathise with your saying you haven't got the stomach for a fight, but don't you think it would be good to talk to a lawyer and have a proper legal opinion on just how legal it was for them to screw you over like this? Then if you walk away from the fight you do so knowing you could (or couldn't) have won if you'd been bothered, rather than always vaguely wondering what the situation was because all you had was some very random advice on an internet message board.

Anyway, wtf are you meant to 'learn' from it? I would think the biggest learning outcome would be merely that the playing field is not yet level and perhaps a little bit more insight into why people commit illegal discrimination and get away with it. If 'learning' from it means 'learning to criticise your own behaviour more' then that is not a good thing to learn; from what you say it sounded like you did the right thing in not leaving your desk, so what is the learning outcome exactly. Not to have emotions? Not to be a woman? Because it sounds like that is all you did wrong.

It sounds like you were a brilliant employee. I'm with your dp I'm afraid - livid on your behalf.

get on the phone to an employment lawyer, woman!

and if you choose to walk away, which would be understandable, do so from an informed position.

sethstarkaddersmummyreturns · 18/10/2010 12:51

anyway, good luck whatever you decide, and I'm so glad you have a supportive dp - he sounds like a gem. Smile

ISNT · 18/10/2010 12:52

I've never understood this about probation periods.

Is it that companies are allowed to sack people with no warnings etc or a good reason in the probation period

Or not?

DeadPoncy · 18/10/2010 12:53

As for emotional being code for being a woman, it's bloody sad and wrong that this is the case, isn't it?

I don't like ad hominem arguments, but just want to note that, in an office I used to work in, the men were far more hormonal and emotional, always "bantering" to piss one another off and harass some of the women. One was pretty much emotionally incontinent and had no sense of boundaries; we heard personal phone conversations and everything.

The above is not a generalisation, but nor should emotional women be, either! Really crap that such codes are so widely accepted, in the "smiley-smiley grovelly" manner sethstarkaddersmummyreturns referred to, isn't it?

Original poster
happiestblonde · 18/10/2010 12:55

Thank you. You're totally right they have got to me: when they told me to get my stuff and get out I actually said 'of course, I respect your decision, I'm sorry it didn't work out' so I didn't fulfil their assessment of me. then cried outside as soon as I was out of the building/out of sight.

Dp and my father are angry on my behalf I just feel a total failure and that maybe I should get some of therapy to deal with my excessive emotions.

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EvilAntsAndMiasmas · 18/10/2010 12:56

Yes, DeadPoncy. In my last office, I was far more likely to be interrupted from work by men deciding to play some hilarious game clustered round one another's desks, or by overhearing one side of a particular man's hideous marital phone arguments, than by weeping ladies Hmm.

EvilAntsAndMiasmas · 18/10/2010 12:57

No, happiest!

You are not a snivelling bundle of patheticum tendencies.

They are a bunch of twats.

Got that? :o

EvilAntsAndMiasmas · 18/10/2010 12:58

Counselling, FFS. Not at you - but at what they've done to you. I was made redundant not long ago and I swear it knocked me for months afterwards. It's shit.

But it's not you.

DeadPoncy · 18/10/2010 13:01

So you are out of the building already!

Deep breath. Go out and sit in a cafe and blank out for at least half an hour. Think about what you are going to do later.

On the home front, think about telling DP and your father that you have been made to feel like a failure and would they go easy on the anger. It is making you feel as though they could get angry with you, if you can't fight this, and that is just wrong. Tell them you need to know they will not hold it against you if you don't "get satisfaction". They may not realise their reaction could have this effect on you.

Good luck, and log off now!

ISNT · 18/10/2010 13:14

TBH

Would you want to work with a bunch of people like that?

You say that you were not happy about progression prospects

They obviously don't like women

I am sorry about what has happened, and hope that your families finances will manage

But frankly, you're best off out of it. it wasn't going to make you happy.

sethstarkaddersmummyreturns · 18/10/2010 13:17

Your emotions aren't excessive, they're normal and this has only happened a few hours ago!
Bit early for therapy Wink

What E&M said: You're normal. They're twats.

You know what, imagine if you had started a thread that said 'AIBU to sack an employee for crying at her desk once? There were just a few tears and she stayed at her desk and carried on working. She meets her targets and her performance is otherwise good.' Do you think anyone would be saying 'YANBU, she is clearly overemotional, sack her immediately'?!
I think not!

sprogger · 18/10/2010 13:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
happiestblonde · 18/10/2010 13:27

They're angry at them, not me. I'm long out the office - took the first train out of London to my father's house in Surrey where I now have a g&t and he is taking me for lunch. Finances are not a problem luckily.

I didn't like the job really - headhunting recruitment is nothing like HR, it's lying to people to steal their possible jobs for your own candidates. I lliked the people but I did miss intellectual conversation rather than them talking about 'birds' and iphone applications - I used to work in Parliament writing research papers and policy, it really hit home when noone at work knew the pope was visiting (suitably controversial - worthy of debate I thought) but back in Parl it would have been debated for hours.

Anyway, I think you're very right to say 'emotional' is code for woman. Thank you so, so much for your advice and support

OP posts:
Original poster
happiestblonde · 18/10/2010 13:27

They're angry at them, not me. I'm long out the office - took the first train out of London to my father's house in Surrey where I now have a g&t and he is taking me for lunch. Finances are not a problem luckily.

I didn't like the job really - headhunting recruitment is nothing like HR, it's lying to people to steal their possible jobs for your own candidates. I lliked the people but I did miss intellectual conversation rather than them talking about 'birds' and iphone applications - I used to work in Parliament writing research papers and policy, it really hit home when noone at work knew the pope was visiting (suitably controversial - worthy of debate I thought) but back in Parl it would have been debated for hours.

Anyway, I think you're very right to say 'emotional' is code for woman. Thank you so, so much for your advice and support

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claig · 18/10/2010 13:33

I understand how you feel. It is a huge shock and inevitably you start questioning yourself. But it's not your fault, they are bastards. Frankly I wouldn't want to work for people like that. They don't deserve you. Being emotional is normal, it goes with being empathetic, it goes with being human. Lots of successful businessmen are emotional too.

ISNT · 18/10/2010 13:39

I have heard that working in headhunting / sharp end of recruitment can be a really horrible job.

Were you in HR before? Maybe think again about your direction? I'm having a think at the moment and it pays to put all of your skills down on paper and think, what do I want to do, and what can I do with these skills? Try and think away from the obvious moves IYSWIM, think about different industries and think laterally. Put it down to experience.

I'm so glad that your finances can take it, have a lovely lunch, and pick up when you feel ready.

BTW if they are going to give you a shitty ref, you could always just leave them out, 6 weeks isn't a huge gap. Say you had something to go to and it fell through because of the recession or something, write them out.

Just some thoughts Smile

DeadPoncy · 18/10/2010 13:43

"They're angry at them, not me."

Of course. Just be aware that it could feed back into your self-esteem anyway, will-they, nill-they.

sethstarkaddersmummyreturns · 18/10/2010 13:45

So glad your dad is looking after you.
You sound way too good for them tbh! Shock @ them not knowing or caring about the Pope.
I wonder if they also thought you didn't fit in because you were too intellectual for them and made them feel thick, but of course they couldn't say that so they had to come up with something that made you out to be inferior Grin

I bet you will find something much more interesting next time.

Original poster
happiestblonde · 18/10/2010 15:53

I have interviews set up for tomorrow with companies that my rec2rec girl thinks I will suit the 'culture' a little better - ie fewer misogynistic failed estate agents and more graduates with an interest in the world aside Faces nightclub.

I feel so drained and so sad and so not up for selling myself at 9am but I need the job.

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DeadPoncy · 18/10/2010 16:00

"so not up for selling myself at 9am"

Have some exercise if you can, a good hot bath, maybe takeaway and cinema/DVD (get out of your own head), sex with DP if possible (!), and then a good night's sleep!

Original poster
happiestblonde · 18/10/2010 16:05

DP is away til Wednesday night with work. Bad timing to get fired really.

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