Feminism chat thread

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

Hello

Been saying for ages that it'd be nice to have an area for just saying hi, letting off some steam and sharing the little things that don't warrant a whole thread.

So, I'll start...

My brother made me :o:o:o last night when we were talking about some crap sexist song. And he said (in all honesty) - well this is just one of the millions of ways the patriarchy keeps itself going.

Also got the updated email from the Feminism in London conference this morning - can't wait.

Anyone else?

Where are they all coming from at the moment?

(Raab thread)

Hello (and goodbye). I've finally got around to reading some contemporary stuff on feminism - don't get too excited, just summaries on the interweb - and think I may be close to understanding why I keep getting my ass kicked on this board. I'm a feminist because I believe in equal rights, opportunties and respect. It's clear to me that women do not enjoy this equality. However, I don't believe women have the right to greater privileges than men. I do think men get it harder than us in some areas.

I'm against concepts of supremacy or inferiority based on any physical characteristic. Obviously there are battles to be fought by & for women, but this does mean I'm not 'pro-women' as such. I think that's what causes me to bump up against this board's most vociferous members whenever I post. I've concluded it's just not worth trying.

I have learned some things from you, and will doubtless continue to. Thanks for that.

Re Black Swan - seen it and seriously struggling to find anything feminist in it....if she is supposed to a role model god help us all - essentially says to me women are neurotic and unhinged and backstab each other for the attention of a man..

AgingGrace - I am with Prolesworth, where do you get the idea that feminists believe women have the right to greater privileges than men??

maternity leave?

um

I'm a feminist, Prolesworth, and it's not what I believe. So, no.

What greater privileges are you talking about though?

I can only think of maternity leave.

AgeingGrace wrote - "Hello (and goodbye)."

Can you expand on the "goodbye" part of your statement please?

Psst Rhadegunde, not me, Grace. I'm also of the view that feminists don't say women should get more than men.

Hi Sakura

I don't think the divide between loving and hating it is a comment on ballet. My DD also does ballet, and I do think ballet in general is a positive thing. I didn't like it because of the reasons Blackduck has mentioned.

I thought the main character's perception of the other women around her was more like a troubled man's perceptions of women, so I began to see the main character as being a man rather than a woman. I also thought the portrayal of mental illness, eating disorders and self harm were very inaccurate, and I think that is quite irresponsible when those issues are already misunderstood.

I don't think feminists want women to have more rights than men. One reason for that is feminists are far too busy at the moment trying to:

a) obtain as many rights as men

and

b) prevent women's rights being lost.

Ageinggrace, has it occurred to you thaqt the summaries on the interweb you've read, might actually be hostile to feminism?

Far better to read feminist writers themselves, surely?

I'm crap at leaving when I feel I should, as many bar managers will attest.

I felt quite angry about the Assange thread, specifically its theme that the plaintiffs should be believed over & above the defendant before it's gone to trial. I do understand the thinking behind that, but get very irritated when writers apply One Intransigent Rule to potentially complex situations. On top of that, "Innocent until proven guilty" seems to have no meaning here.

Yes, maternity rights and related issues are a bit of a thorny topic. I don't feel every woman should automatically be believed when she accuses someone of rape. I do feel that male survivors of 'sex' crimes, street crimes and of DV are under-represented and under-supported. I differ from most of you in my thoughts about the sex trades. I think some of you are a bit too quick to equate womanhood with victimhood. And some of you are too bullying shouty to argue with.
If feminism has only one voice, I must be wasting my breath.

Luckily feminism doesn't only have one voice.

There's a limit to how many books I can read, HBX

My serious feminist reading tailed off somewhere in the late 80s; I wanted to do a quick catch-up. I think I can usually tell if I'm reading a biased summary.

Perhaps I should just accept I'm a dinosaur.

Do you bring the same level of disbelief to reports of arson, burglary, insurance claims?

OK Grace ot address your points: my position on rape is that unless there is some glaring great obvious reason why a woman who claims she was raped shouldn't be believd (like she claims that her assailant had blue skin and abducted her in his space-ship), then yes, she should be believed by the police and the crime investigated, just as all burglary victims are automatically believed and the crime investigated properly, in order to assess whether there is enough evidence to take the case to court. Once it gets to court, you can then examine the evidence and have an argument about whether you believe her or not. You seem to have ignored the fact that as several posters pointed out on that thread, feminists are not saying tht Assange is automatically guilty - they are saying that the womens' allegations should be taken seriously and that he should stand trial. This was explained very clearly on the thread, no-one is saying he should be found guilty, just that he should stand trial because he has been accused of a very serious crime.

"I do feel that male survivors of 'sex' crimes, street crimes and of DV are ... under-supported." I agree with you, but that is not a feminist issue, it's an issue men need to address. I don't know what you mean by "under-represented" in that sentence btw which is why I took it out.

I don't think we are shouty, I think we have very good arguments and we don't back down and allow bad arguments to go unchallenged. That's often seen as shouty when women do it. It's seen as normal when men do it.

Anyway I hope you stick around.