Different opinions after having DCs

[HollyFP]

Just posted this in chat but might get different replies here...

Since having DD 8 weeks ago, I have (obviously) started to think about how I want DH and I to raise her, and perhaps have become slightly more feminist in my outlook (in a protective way).

Example: before having DD I used to not be too bothered about strip clubs - thinking they were just a bit of fun - but now, there's no way I feel the same. As someone once said to me (on MN I think), how would I like it if it was my DD up there on stage...It definitely made me think differently.

Has anyone else changed their opinions once having DCs? I guess it might be an obvious question...:)

It made me more aware of the way gender is pushed on children. When I went out to buy clothes for DS and just saw a sea of pink for the girls and a row of sludgy brown for the boys. Also in the way people responded to things like him having a toy pram and doll. It's weird and horrible.

StewieGriffinsMom wrote - "I overheard a woman telling her 3 year old that she couldn't go to a birthday party for a boy in her nursery because they were going to see Thomas at the pictures. Apparently, this would make her a 'boy'."

(assuming Thomas, the tank engine) Strange how, presumably, she was not worried that it could turn her girl into a train.

I've realised that boys can be sexist from a very young age and feminist parenting isn't enough to counter it.

I agree Forever,my counsellor once said to me when i brought up this subject
"What's the difference between a 4 yo boy and a man ?"
Answer " The length of his legs "
I dont fetch and carry for either of my dcs when they can do it for themselves ,all about raising them to be independent little people .They lay the table, put their dishes in the sink ,put dirty laundry in the basket etc ,they are 4yo and 5yo.But i have watched pre-school boys sitting on their butts beside their fathers while mum scuttles around them without getting a please or a thankyou.I just think this teaches little ones the wrong message from an early age and reinforces stereo types .I am a single parent now and my household will always be run as a workers co-operative

Also never fails to surprise me how the mysogynistic attitudes appear in men when the 2nd child is born .First child they may be there to help ,2nd child their social life seems to pick up and they hang out with fellow cave men .

My attitude to working has altered a little, in that I really GET now how underrated "women's work" is.

The experience of being sidelined when pregnant and now that I'm back at work has also been a real eye opener. I always knew it happened but somehow believed that I was valued enough as an employee for it not to happen to me. It has been a real shock.

BeerTricksPotter - similar here except with us it was a decision about who would go part-time after DC1 arrived. DH and I work for the same organisation, and started work at roughly the same time and the same salary. Now several years, and two DCs later, even if I worked full-time I would still be earning about 2/3 of what DH earns. I simply had not realised the impact taking maternity leave and being part-time would have.

Before I had DCs I did complain about things I felt were sexist, but I find that now I do it even more - I feel a need to try to do my bit to stop creeping sexisim in everyday life.

Also, when I had DC1 (DS) I became very sensitive to any comments about gender e.g. wehn my FIL complained that I bought DS a doll's buggy (which he loved) I questioned FIL about his attitude straight away.

I hate people who use the following phrase:

'You're all behaving like a load of girls'

I really don't like that comment about the difference between a man and a boy being the length of his legs.

Let's all hate our boy children, shall we?

Sexism is not innate.

lol, arses, read it again.

the poster was suggesting that if a boy child can manage to pick up his toys and tidy up, so should his dad. there was no animosity at all, she was suggesting there is no reason grown men can't be as helpful as small boys . no hate.

Many men will avoid responsibility ,remain childlike for as long as they can ,if at all possible IME, hence 4yo comparison.I think it means the seeds of sexism are sown at an early age and the character doesnt change so we should try and educate an absorbent mind[actions speak louder than words and all that]

I hate people who use the following phrase:

'You're all behaving like a load of girls'

I hate that too! A woman I work with keeps saying that. She's in the Navy reserves and hangs out with a load of men. It's clearly used in a derogatory sense. I asked her what was wrong with being a girl and said it means "pathetic and weak". Brilliant.

Have to confess, and I think I have done before, that I am not a mum (only to a very cute dog!). However, I am actually put off having children because I worry that I wouldn't be able to protect them from the constant assault of sexual images.

I don't know how parents protect their children from MTV, the internet, strip clubs, places like Hooters, lads mags....I think that if I was 14/15 now I'd be anoxeric and saving up for plastic surgery!

The whole laissez faire attitude of people, like those who were on Radio 5 this evening, really disturbs me. Even my own mum, who was very strict with me, thinks that strip clubs and lads mags are just a bit of fun. This is a woman who wouldn't let me watch Grange Hill when I was younger (although I have 2 brothers who were treated differently...).

So I'm not sure if I will ever feeling differently after having children because I don't know if I will ever go down that road. I don't know if I could be more depressed and concerned about it than I am!

Patience, I just find stereotypes like these unhelpful.

I find it reductive to assume all, or even the majority, of men or women follow a type. In terms of feminism, I can understand talking about Men systemically (e.g. Men have better opportunities, are paid more, are less likely to maintain contact with a child after a separation etc). However, I find the 'joke':

"What's the difference between a 4 yo boy and a man ?"
Answer " The length of his legs "

as sexist and disempowering for both sexes as any antifeminist joke. When women infantilise men (and yes I appreciate that society leads us to do that as it keeps women down, but...) it seems, to me, to prop up the far-too-prevalent attitude of 'well, I have to do all the housework/childcare because dh is hopeless at it and he couldn't do it well enough for me" while said dh shrugs and smiles helplessly. In the end, who does this impact most negatively?

I appreciate that it's about raising dc differently - certainly in this house, we do our bit, workers co-operative and all of that, and I hope it will continue.

Agree with loads of these.

For me, I never imagined how easy it would be for DH to carry on life as before. It has been a great source of pain to me that our society is pretty much designed for his easy advancement at the expense of people like me. I naturally assumed that we would both find things tricky after having children.

This isn't because he is a git, it is because by nearly every measure, when I got pregnant my value to society plummeted and I didn't realise how much energy and money (for childcare) it would take to reclaim it.

Referring to the OP I personally was shocked at how many women have to grow up emotionally when they have children because they have no choice and how so many men chose to remain emotionally immature and wriggle out of certain responsibilities and how society allows them to.I honestly thought it would be much more equal ,i was very niave ,the norm is still to celebrate anything a bloke manages to do to help .Advertising perpetuates this in a "They are just blokes "kinda way .I am sure there are plenty of women in Britain who work the same hours as their partner and also keep the house running smoothly because their partner CHOOSES to opt out of the basic organisation this entails . Perhaps he helps out ,but i think men with initiative in this dept are still in the minority .

The thing about 4yo boys is they will manipulate you and charm you to get their own way.Grown men will also use this tactic believe it or not

Interesting discussion.

The whole thing about realising just how weighted British culture is to the needs/expectations of those who aren't taking a major responsibility for birthing and parenting (to take things out of gender terms) is certainly something that struck me v hard. It's so obvious when you've got a baby, and so 'normal' beforehand. The number of women I know who went through illegal redundancy procedures during or just after pregnancy... including myself. And that's just the beginning.

Don't get me started on public transport either...

But to change the subject slightly: I find myself physically shuddering to recall stupid, naive, smug things I said to friends who were parents, prior to having my own kid...

I think bc i was under the illusion that things had moved on quite dramatically from my grandmother's day re motherhood now i tend to disagree,gave me quite a shock

What gretl said.

And I notice all the pictures on the news stands of pneumatic women with stars over their nipples waiting to be rear mounted much more than I used to.

ISNT yes I also bleugh at those images more than ever now, but it isn't just about the portrayal of women in the media but of men also, as has been mentioned already - the stereotyping of both genders is ghastly but I'm only noticing some of it now having had my DD.

I don't want her to grow up thinking ANY of these stereotypes are acceptable (to us). It makes me sad to think I probably have a battle on my hands for the next 18 years...