Let's talk about cognitive dissonance ...

[colditz]

My relationship with my children's father broke up because he lied about money and hit me, and I finally, after many years of misery, refused to tolerate it. But why did I tolerate it for as long as I did when I was miserable?

I believed that children need their parents to stay together and that I would not cope alone. The facts were that children do not need one parent to be abusing the other, and that my life would have been easier without him merrily fucking it up.

The stress caused by the gap between my own personal beliefs and the reality of my situation was causing an uncomfortable feeling, often described as cognitive dissonance.

Is this the reason that people who consider themselves fair minded nevertheless perpetuate an unfair system? Intelligent women who do all the housework and childcare 'because he goes to work' must see the difference between theirs and their husband's exhaustion levels - why do they accept it, and decide that 'going out to work is really hard' when they surely must remeber the time when they went out to work and had no home responsibilities as being a darned sight easier than the life they live now?

I think it's bcause cognitive dissonance is a very uncomfortable state of being, and if you cannot change your situation, you must change your way of thinking to bring it in line with your situation or suffer the misery of inner conflict.

Which brings me to the rejection of feminism.

Why do so many women reject feminism when it would clearly improve their lot to be treated fairly?

Is it because they cannot easily become fairly treated individuals, not without huge conflict and arguments in their home and at work, so they decide, unconsciously, to believe that they are already treated fairly? And therefore feminism is defunct in their minds.

Intersting.

Lenin - I know that feeling, the realisation hit me recently. I've found myself working towards more secure work, possibly doing more hours, and with DS getting funded hours at nursery soon I would, in theory be able to leave if I did decide to.

Quite a liberating moment, and now if I decide to stay it will be because I want to, not because I have to. How the fuck did I end up in this situation??

Marking my place more than anything. Really interesting - I want to re-read all the points made and have a big think.

Men don't iron (when they don't iron) because they don't want to.

Brownie points if they do, nothing if they don't.

Women iron because they are disapproved of if they don't. SOme don't, and take the disapproval (me), others iron and gain nothing apart from fewer wrinkles in their clothes.

So we have "Nobody ever irons but me and that's not fair" + "I can do nothing to change this - whether I iron or not" = cognitive dissonance = "I don't care if shirts are wrinkly" OR "I like ironing, actually. It's relaxing."

DH and I both work (him 5 days, me 4), but I do 95% of the cooking, washing up, packed lunch, washing, cleaning, ironing (that's a new one for me - now I have a utility room and putting the ironing board up no longer means blocking access to the entire kitchen, I have discovered I do get an odd sort of pleasure from it).

I don't think I have the cognitive dissonance thing in that I don't think I should be doing everything, and I do pull DH up about it from time to time (particularly if I hear the classic phrase 'where are all my socks'?). Unfortunately, his standard reply is "But I really don't care if the place is a shithole and we haven't washed up for a fortnight" (socks notwithstanding, obviously). And if I didn't cook, he certainly wouldn't bother as he's just not that interested in food.

OTOH he is much better at DIY than I am, though I'm a dab hand at painting and decorating these days.

So is he doing CD by convincing himself that I am doing all the housework because I choose to, rather than because it needs doing?

Or am I just being an idiot?

Well, why aren't you constantly having a go at him about it? Why are you accepting it? Would he be genuinely happy to live in a house in which you did as little housework as he did#?

You see, I sometimes think that some men have something of a point in that a bit of mess is no big deal. And it's not that difficult to buy clothes that don't need to be ironed. So I do think that some of the women who do shitloads of housework (all that awful flylady crap) more than their H's might make their first priority lowering the standards a little. WHo cares if the fucking sink sparkles every day? But if you are allocating the household chores so that the man does his share, make sure the jobs he is allocated are the ones that will distress him if they are not done, so he can't just not do them until you are so stressed that you take over.

Colditz - I honestly think he would. We were a right couple of slobs until we had DD.

LadyW, why don't you stop cooking for him, then, if he's not bothered? And definitely don't do his washing.

Motherinferior if I'm cooking for myself and DD I may as well do so for him too. If he's not around at dinnertime (like tonight as he is working late) I'll sort myself out (DD is away on a school trip) and he fends for himself - usually involves a piece of bread and some cheese.

A very interesting thread. When I first started living with DH I used to get super stressed about housework and feel resentful etc but over time I came round to his way of thinking. He really doesn't mind a bit of a mess and now neither do I. Where I think the real problem lies is when a man demands a clean house and complains about dirt but then doesn't do anything about it. If my DH wanted a sparkling house then he could bloody well do it himself.

I think for a lot of women a clean house is a point of pride. I know the main time I clean is when I know there are visitors coming, as I feel a dirty house reflects on me. DH would quite happily show visitors into a pigsty with no shame whatsoever. I have seen over time that I can't force him to genuinely care about something that really doesn't interest him in the slightest - I know if he started wanting me to help out cleaning or maintaining the car (which I couldn't give a toss about) I would probably avoid it with all my might and get narky when he reminded me about it.

However, DH does not expect me to tend to his bodily needs or wait on him hand and foot as he is a grown adult. Also he does the cooking because he likes it and I don't.

We're due our first baby in December so it'll be interesting to see how things pan out then as childcare can't be ignored in the same way that housework can.

Also I know this is slightly off topic but can someone explain why anyone ever needs to "do the ironing"? I have about three things that need ironing and these get ironed just before I wear them. I wouldn't dream of washing or ironing my DH's clothes (and this was true even when I wasn't working for 6 months). I don't wash his body for him so why his clothes? They're his responsibility. A lot of the time I think women make work for themselves. My MIL irons towels, duvet covers and underwear - why? why? why? If you hate ironing, stop doing it, the world won't end.

Yeah, look at me getting all defensive! Off to nurse my cognitive dissonance

stuff like this really makes me love my dh. he genuinely does his share, i think. if anything, we could both of us be more money-driven so we'll be more secure in what old age we have, but we like hanging out with our kids too much...

That's lovely Aitch.

cheers, eleison. (or should that be kyrie?)
actually, he's always been pretty good but left a lot of organisey stuff to me... then he turned forty and it was like a lightbulb went on, he suddenly valued all that pita organisey stuff much more. now i can't get moving for cups of tea and dishwashers and laundry he's doing, without being asked. he says it just hit him one day that i did all that stuff (and moaned at him to do it too) because if i didn't, he wouldn't, and the unfairness of that situation was unacceptable.

i think the fact that he has two daughters really brings it home to him, tbh, all the casual sexisms that men are steeped in. and he said that turning forty he realised that he was happier than he'd ever imagined he would be and should be giving credit to me for making that so.

tbh i was perfectly fine before, but i do very much like this newer attitude as well.

The cliche is of men who have a midlife crisis that makes them go off and be selfish and self-asorbed. That is a much much nicer take on midlife. Probably a credit to you as well as him.

oh yes, all me.

I think it boils down to who cleans the toilet(s).

If he doesn't or says "I did it once erog I know where the towels are kept" then she has unequal parity and a definite cognitive dissonance (CD) mindset.

Some people are houseproud, some people are slutty. Most fall inbetween. However when it comes to housework most men won't do it (or will be critical if it doesn't meet their exacting standards).

SAHM's accept this because they feel guilty (another symptom of CD), however if you look for housekeeping jobs they pay a good wage, much more than the SAHM's husband is prepared to give to her.

However an important component of CD is that those who are paid less for something will in fact praise about the something more. Google Festinger and Carlsmith 1959 and you'll be surprised!

Great post OP.