Let's talk about cognitive dissonance ...

[colditz]

My relationship with my children's father broke up because he lied about money and hit me, and I finally, after many years of misery, refused to tolerate it. But why did I tolerate it for as long as I did when I was miserable?

I believed that children need their parents to stay together and that I would not cope alone. The facts were that children do not need one parent to be abusing the other, and that my life would have been easier without him merrily fucking it up.

The stress caused by the gap between my own personal beliefs and the reality of my situation was causing an uncomfortable feeling, often described as cognitive dissonance.

Is this the reason that people who consider themselves fair minded nevertheless perpetuate an unfair system? Intelligent women who do all the housework and childcare 'because he goes to work' must see the difference between theirs and their husband's exhaustion levels - why do they accept it, and decide that 'going out to work is really hard' when they surely must remeber the time when they went out to work and had no home responsibilities as being a darned sight easier than the life they live now?

I think it's bcause cognitive dissonance is a very uncomfortable state of being, and if you cannot change your situation, you must change your way of thinking to bring it in line with your situation or suffer the misery of inner conflict.

Which brings me to the rejection of feminism.

Why do so many women reject feminism when it would clearly improve their lot to be treated fairly?

Is it because they cannot easily become fairly treated individuals, not without huge conflict and arguments in their home and at work, so they decide, unconsciously, to believe that they are already treated fairly? And therefore feminism is defunct in their minds.

Intersting.

kickassangel - If I am reading the post wrong I apolgise but if the kids are at school all week why dont you spend a lot of that time doing something you want to do?

Yes... I agree. YOu shouldn't put on a front for your kids. IN many cases splitting up is probably the best option. My problem is more of an existential musing of is this it ? The spark is still alive for DH and I, and it's real, but I do feel I've compromised my freedom big time by getting married. There has to be another way. Maybe the way forward is the current trend of waiting until the kids have grown, and your hormones change, and then women divorce their men. There's probably something biological keeping couples together in the short term. It has to be more socially acceptable to divorce so it doesn't take women too long to realise they're normal for not enjoying marriage.

And as we can see from Footlong's post, he is as sexist as it gets nowadays and he's "very happy" in his marriage by his own admission.

I was thinking the same thing,Lenin.If your parents were happy but then it all fell apart,fair enough,but I think it could be hard to come to terms with if you'd always thought they were happy together,and they weren't.

It is never going to be easy .

It's not as simple as that Sunny. As I explained to my husband, if I'm "not doing anything all day", why don't I take off on a road trip by myself and camp at my favourite lodge, or go on a picnic with my friend and drink wine together. Well, because you're tied to the home by your responsibilities. And the worst part of all is the dinner. Making food for men is patriarchal. I noticed that when DH worked late on business a few times. I'd think, 'Thank God I don'T have to make dinner", then me and the kids woudl have healthy snacks or a light dinner. Now we split it more, and he cooks at weekends. I didn'T realise the problem was there at first. I just thought I was lazy and wasn't doing anything all day. But it all runs much deeper than that.

I think he's in a bit of denial. I don't think he can get his head around the fact that he's not doing his wife a favour by being married to her

Am I allowed to stay married,Sakura!?
Feeling a bit damned if I do,and damned if I don't here.
While I do not like to think of myself as middle aged,I'm pretty sure I am,and it is beginning to feel here as I can either be "out" and unhappy,or saying I'm happy but kidding myself...

I did have a big "is this is what it is all about" moment,brought on partly by health problems,a few years ago,and decided I really didn't want a new man,or no man - what I wanted was more fun with the one I've got.
i don't see my freedom as being particularly curtailed by marriage,but it has been by having the DCs.And,though I hate to admit it ,by age.I would like to be 20 with it all ahead of me again,but that's never going to happen,is it?

oh I do dump it these days. I'm just suprised I didn't realise earlier how it hung over my day and how much I hated it. I like cooking, as a creative act, but not having to do it all the time. He told me the same as you told your DP. THe problem is that when you don't earn a wage because you're child-rearing society tells you you're useless.

Am I allowed to stay married,Sakura!?

sorry... yes you definitely are because you've had the existential crisis and come out the other end with your decision. You have to have had the crisis though!!!!

I suppose I am lucky to have that as our place is all on one level so even days when it looks like the place has been burgled (which is quite frequently!) it takes about 45 minutes to do the whole place. I also do things like spag bol, chilli etc with stir in sauce that I do after work that doesnt take long and if its kiddie snacks its fruit. I have never cooked a meal from scratch though as I wouldnt have a clue where to begin. I dont really know if my husband could other than a roast.

I will admit I am very lazy though when it comes to food maybe on some nights when he is in make something easy to make and then it wont take long and you have all day to go shopping or go to the pub for dinner? I suppose that comes from being a mum at work as usually there isnt much chance anyone is getting a home cooked meal as there isnt time and no one can ever be bothered.

yes but he should be doing things like spag bol, chilli etc as well sunny, surely?

Ok,I'm obviously happy because I am a bad wife! In that scenario,with the chance of a fun day out I would say to DH that I wanted to go out,would he be ok to cook (rhetorical question and polite warning as he's never said no!)
The big problem for us is school run,but he'll do that with enough notice.And in fact I'm doing this this very week as DC2 is away and I am free from the school run problem!

But I don't think that men who think that their wives are not doing anything all day,free at home with the DCs ,having coffee with friends etc realise quite what it is like to always be doing those things with the DCs,having to watch them,feed them,entertain them.You have to be doing this anyway - so you might as well meet up for coffee and do it together,But you aren't free,are you?

Oh help,have got distracted and am now very late - ooops!

If you're a bad wife, you're probably happy in your marriage

No you're not free when there's kids around. I had pre-birth images of the baby sleeping in a pram next to me while I enjoyed a book in a coffee shop lol. Society told me it was easy, and even though I'D had experience with my siblings, it's different when it's your own.

He does do stuff sometimes but it depends on the day as he has his volunteer placements for his new job and does 12 hours in his manual job so it depends if he is in.

I get really hungry sometimes so dont wait around for him he can have it when he gets in unfortunately on some days he has to leave the house at 6am until 9pm at night so by that time I am really hungry so do it when I get in and then he can have the rest when he gets in. I didnt cook for the first 5 and a half years of living together/being married. I didnt ever do any cooking until I had a baby but before we used to live on the biggest load of junk ever. I only learnt how to cook meat in a stir in sauce 2 years ago! ( told you I was a tramp )

yeah, I was never taught to cook either. When I said I like the creativity I didn'T mean I cooked from scratch every day. I have a compromise with my DH, I either tidy up or do dinner but I don'T do both. I've worked myself. IT'S much easier to tidy up and do dinner when you've been out somewhere all day earning money compared to stewing in your own juices with a baby. (I love being with my kids, don'T want anyone to get the wrong idea. I'm talking purely about the shitwork here)

Some weeks one of us tidies up every night but often with the washing up it piles so high I scrape all the food off and hide it in the cupboards in case my parents come round! Sometimes it depends if its a hectic one neither of us do them until we start eating out of ridiculous things like drinking orange squash in wine glasses and trying to stuff all your dinner on a side plate.

We arent always like those though! I do like tidying and cleaning a lot of the time but there have been a fair few weeks when we have been like this when we have been studying or working a lot. My point is anyway it doesnt matter if you lower your standards now and again imo as long as you enjoy life (also you hide it from people so they cant see it )

yes but a husband has to take up the slack so the husband and the wife can enjoy life in a cleanish house

Of course but Im just saying that we dont care if everything doesnt always get done but we both will do it at some point or will take it in turns. I think a lot of couples arguments come from both people being tired and then getting in to whos the most tired. Best to sleep on it and then it will get done tomorrow between you or one of you do it this time the other do it at the weekend if you are both that tired.

no we don't have the who's the most tired argument. If DH is clearly tired after having a harder day than usual then I will take on more than I would normally, and he does the same for me.

Thats another way of doing things to and thats what its all about compromise. Any of those ways makes life that bit easier and keeps everyone happy ime. See compromise in your life isnt always bad and its teamwork.

no sunny, I didn't say compromise was bad. For me, marriage was a compromise. I'm saying that being single in your fifties looks like a better option for a woman than being married. And women have to overcome their cognitive dissonance to realise that, in many cases. NOt in all cases, there are good marriages, usually when the woman is a "Bad wife". Those marriages are probably ok.

Er Sakura...

"he gets to feel all masculine that he's providing for his family and all that. Men need that and women can give it to them."

OK, a little unfair to snip out of context, but this from a feminist? ^^

sorry, I'm just emphasising the fact that I'm not a scrounger or a parasite because I'm at home with the babies, like Footlong and society are trying to imply. Men get something out of the deal as well. I pay someone to take the baby off me in the morning so I can keep my hand in with my work, and I'm really looking forward to working again, but right now I'm taking care of our little children.

And off topic, but I realised I needn't feel sorry for DH that he's not coming on a week-long holiday with the children. I take my work with me wherever I go So it'll be more of a holiday for DH than for me!