A different viewpoint on Choice Feminism

[GothAnneGeddes]

This is taken from a website called FWD, or feminists with disabilities.

It argues that not all women can access the same choices, hence not all choices can be viewed equally. Well worth reading.

I thought sparky's point was excellent and well made though - that it's no good unilaterally deciding what other people need. You have to ask them, and do things in partnership, rather than setting yourself up as some kind of bountiful patron bestowing your favours on people, that they don't want and they don't need. I thought that was what she was saying anyway. Maybe I misunderstood.

oh nooooo-
isnt im not at all saying you are patronising-not at all-

and im certainly not saying that youre ideas are worthless and offensive.

many sorrys if anyone on here feels like im attacking them-im not.

ill come back in a little while and try and eloborate on what i wrote[dinner burning]

Hope your dinner's OK

This thread does feel very personal and I don't know why. Threads get you like that sometimes, I think.

I can't see anything wrong with trying to help with things as long as you are aware that you are operating from a certain viewpoint ie your personal situation.

I know that charity and other activity does have the capacity to go enormously and horribly wrong. People and organisations do their best (usually) but they're not infallible, it is sometimes difficult to predict what the long term effect of actions will be. But when the alternative is to stand by and do nothing. I don't think that is an alternative, is it?

ha-what dinner

yep[nodding]some threads do get you like that sometimes-the people on benifits ones get me goin-i end up doing posts that make me look like the mad hatter-ha ha ha.

anyway-yes isnti couldnt agree with you more[......stand by and do nothing-i dont think that is a alternitive]

this is why i think disability is a feminist issue.

ill try and explain what i mean-so-

feminists fight for womens rights[and peoples rights]-

feminists are often seen as mc white women.

im not middle class.

some of the things feminists talk about are so far away from me-i dont even know what theyre talking about.

but in this-i can see that mc feminists have strenth-but so do i-but diffrent strenths.

i agree with the things feminists are fighting for-and i think what they fight for is a good thing.

having said this though-some of my fight is a bit like the other side of the coin sometimes.

eg-the fight for a womans right to termination-
i fight for the opposite-i fight for a disabled persons right not to have a termination.

[when i fell pregnant with my daughter-a proffesional came running straight round with her little pen and paper telling me that-"we need to act fast for the termination"-i told her to *]
then had a big fight on my hands-
ha-i wish she could see me now-im a good parent.

mc feminism fight for things like-the right for women not to be sexualised-
disabled women are met with horror if they
wear short skirts and make up-and god forbid they have a relashionship-
or even worse-they want casual realashionships.

disabled people are sometimes bullied by the "proffessionals"-if they try and stick up for themselves-they fear losing theyre services[or worse]

disabled people fear losing theyre children-
on the whim of someones say so.

we supposidly have "rights" but sometimes these aint worth a carrot.

i feel that mc feminists have strenths and i feel we have aswell-but i feel our voices are less heard.
i dont need people to talk for me-i just want to be heard.
and i think that feminists can hear each other right across the board.
we dont really need diffrent kinds of feminism-just a equality-to fight inequality.

i forgot to mention-
probably the thing that has goaded me most[with my own situation]is-
when i was married[a long time ago]i had a disability-but this was ok-as i was married.
[i had children]-but it was like-
youre invisable sparky-but this is ok-it dont matter that you have a disability-you have a ol man.
it was like-somehow-he s presence was inportant-and nothing mattered cos he was there.
years later-same disabilitys-but a single parent[diffrent realashionship]-
id somehow become this unabled person-
some incapable person-who needed "watching"
and being told what to do-
can you see what im saying?
wrong.

I love your posts sparky

The world would be a better place if your voice were heard. It is heard here on MN anyway.

I think it is difficult when different minority group type things collide, which is a shame as obviously the reason they all exist is because they are each experiencing different types of problems/discrimination. The different groups seem to end up arguing with each other rather than teaming up and fighting the real enemy. Well enemy seems a bit strong but you know what I mean.

I suppose it is hard to really put yourself in someone elses shoes. I was arguing once with a man that he couldn't really understand what it is like being a teenage girl and all the casual everyday sexist shit that teenage girls get. Yet people have no problem giving to causes far removed. Maybe that's it - if it's close to home it needs to be something that is happening to you or someone close, if it's round the other side of the world then we react too. I wonder why people struggle to care about people who are having difficulties in their own neighbourhoods.

How do you think that other groups could get their voices heard - what mechanism would you use? How would it work do you think?

Sorry just thinking out loud that's a bit of a stream of consciousness

Hmm that sounds a bit odd.

I mean that I am listening to you, I think what you have to say is important, you always make me think.

I love your posts too sparky. You have a way of putting things that gets right to the heart of the matter. You have a way of seeing things that is clear and direct, and reading what you say helps us to see it clearly too.

You're right, people need to listen to what other people are saying and to respect those people and their views. They should throw away all their preconceptions and just start listening and understanding.

Sparky - thank you so much for your comments.

ISN'T - definitely did not post the link to upset anyone. Just thought it was worth having a ponder over. As it is, now Sparky's joined us, she's explained it far better then the original writer did.

yeah but isnt
you say that youre listening to me-well im also listening to you hun.
i think we maybe come from some very diffrent place-but we are talking to each other-and listening to each other-
we are no better or badder than each other-
just two humun beings fighting inequality.
im very interested in what youve got to say.
no-things dont have to collide-maybe things seem like this sometimes-
sometimes sometime things seem like a big collision-but actually-we fighting diffrent sides of the same coin!
i like you isnt-

lol, i'm saying 'you're on the same side' and no-one agrees. sparky turns up, and hey presto, you're on the same side.
funny old world.
thanks for explaining it sparky - i was failing miserably.

Aw sparky thanks

ha ha ha ha -i must be getting more coherant in my old age.
thankyou Nickoftime.
and thankyou everyone.
right-ill try my best to shut up for a little while now-im very interested to hear other peoples views on the thread.
btw-what is a straw feminist?

have a good day everyone

Try here sparky.

Inlcludes this example:

"Straw man arguments often arise in public debates such as a (hypothetical) prohibition debate:

Person A: We should liberalize the laws on beer.
Person B: No, any society with unrestricted access to intoxicants loses its work ethic and goes only for immediate gratification.

The proposal was to relax laws on beer. Person B has exaggerated this to a position harder to defend, ie, "unrestricted access to intoxicants".

HTH

ah i see.thankyou isnt

have i killed the thread? sorry-didnt mean to.

No I don't think so, it died a natural death

I am getting irate about something else now