Marks and Spencer support new 'Hooters' in Bristol

[JessinAvalon]

Dear all
This is my first post on here so I hope I am doing this right!

I live in Bristol and, last week, 'Hooters' was granted a licence to open in the city centre. The site is virtually opposite 3 apartment blocks, the lower floors of which are social housing and children are living in them.

What's most disappointing is that Marks and Spencer are leasing the site to 'Hooters'. They have been e-mailed by many concerned people to ask if they will reconsider leasing the building but they have just replied saying it is a "commercial decision" (as if that makes it ok!). In Sheffield, a 'Hooters' didn't even make it to application stage because the developer (Ask Pizza) realised that it would be better not to be associated with a company like 'Hooters'.

Marks and Spencer don't seem that concerned, however. Although they have signed up to the "Let Girls Be Girls" Mumsnet campaign they are not concerned about a company which sells merchandise including babygros which say "Future Hooters Girl" and "Does my butt look big in this?"

I have written to Marks and Spencer telling them that I won't be shopping in their stores again. If you feel strongly about this, please e-mail:

[email protected].

'Hooters' tries to sell itself as a family friendly restaurant but it is anything but. The Hooters in Nottingham attracts mainly stag parties and football fans. Hooters Girls take part in bikini contests and iced wet t-shirt competitions (the t-shirts are put in the freezers before the girls wear them). 'Hooters' has links to Playboy magazine....I could go on.....

I think Marks and Spencer should be shamed for facilitating this company's expansion into Bristol. They are selling women and girls down the river by leasing to this company and all just to make a "quick buck".

Thanks everyone.

Hello
I'm here.

I've come across people like this before. On articles about lap dancing, for example, there is always a "David" who comes on to rip apart the Lilith report etc.

The fact that this is even quoted means that this person has some interest in the sex industry [will be denied]. The fact that he/she knew about the Hooters in Cardiff application makes me suspicious too and implies a link to the company [will also be denied].

For someone who claims not to want to interfere, he sure is spending an awful lot of time telling us that this is pointless.

The irony of comments going on about exercising "freedom of choice" from people coming on and telling us what we should or shouldn't campaign about....

I have had suspicions before when seeing comments on articles that there are people employed by the lap dancing/sex industry to come on and criticise statistics and arguments and to belittle the actions of campaigners [will also be denied].

Thank you for your comments, David. They are noted. You are doing a great job of keeping this thread bumped and ensuring that this thread receives many more responses than most on the forum. I'm sure Marks and Spencer will be keeping tabs [any link to them will also be denied].

I have noted what you've said. Thank you for your contribution. You have made your points and I have considered them. I disagree with them, you won't be surprised to hear, and don't feel that I want to waste any more justifying my stance to you.

You keep saying that you don't want to interfere. We are grateful for that. I hope that will mean the end of your posts. However, if you do keep posting, it will serve to keep the thread bumped. I suggest spending our time on productive things now!

To everyone else, I was sent some links to articles from the US today on 'insider research' on Hooters. Will keep you posted on their content (can't access them yet).

If you want to see all the publicity so far, check out the links on:

Hooters blog

Also gathering more spend amounts from others.

OK David I am going to pretend that you are interested in what we are saying.

My primary objection to Hooters, is because I believe that women are full human beings, hence I am a feminist.

For centuries, women have been considered ever so slightly (or sometimes very much) less human than men, by most of the societies in which they have lived. That is the reason that we still have sexism and mysogyny in our society today. Feminism was a reaction against mysogyny, but it didn't make it go away - it just made it change its form. The most obvious way it has done that in the last couple of decades, is by the creeping pornification of our culture. Soft porn is everywhere, our daughters are being groomed from a very young age, to consider themselves as sex objects, to worry about their appearance and to see themselves as not good enough because our culture wants to sell them stuff to "fix" their "faults". They're also being encouraged to focus on what men want from them, not what they want from men.

Establishments like Hooters are at the forefront of dehumanising women. The very name - hooters - is a slang term for breasts. They have sexual harrassment of their female staff as a normal part of working life, built into their contracts. That a minority of women will go along with it and get jobs there, makes not one iota of difference to the fact that the very existence of the place simultaneously reminds us that we are not considered worthy of the same respect as men purely and simply becuase of our sex, while re-inforcing our demeaned status. It is a gratuitous insult to us, as insulting as a black and white minstrel bar would be to ethnic minorities.

And we are fucking sick of being insulted. We'll use the little power we have within the law - in this case, consumer and voting power - to try to defend ourselves against the insults and the harm that is done to us and our daughters by the creeping pornification of our culture.

And on that note, I'm off to bed.

HTH

He also sounds rather like the councillor who was chairing the committee who allowed Hooters to get a licence.....This is exactly the reaction that I got from him after the meeting.

He didn't see the link between a place like 'Hooters' and the objectification of women. He kept asking me if I'd considered an alternative viewpoint!

The only alternative viewpoint is that there is no link and this is what he clearly believes, hence he allowed the place to open when other councillors said that they would have turned it down.

In my experience, there are men (and some women) who clearly have an interest in denying that there's a problem. I believe that they either they have a vested interest or they are in denial. I find the former rather 'psychopathic' and the latter rather sad, but more understandable. It's not pleasant having to accept that there is a problem.

Disagree with me if you want, David. Quite frankly I don't care. I have found your posts patronising and you are clearly out to distract and waste energy here. I have learnt not to waste my energy on people like you shock, horror from you - you just want to engage in debate, don't you?

Jess your first post this evening was rather magnificent. :o

I'm dumbfounded at the idea that we are breaching other people's human rights or something by choosing where [not] to spend our own money.

Thank you Elephants! I get a bit sick of people (mainly men) spending their time telling people (mainly women) on subjects like objectification that our actions are pointless, stupid, a waste of time, that we won't achieve anything, that we don't have any stats etc etc but they only want to engage in debate.

Yet when you present statistics, evidence, personal experiences, it gets torn apart.

So you can't win. You present your argument - ah, but have you considered...?

And you present your statistics and evidence - ah, but these are incorrect because of x and y..

And you try to explain your rationale, but you have no evidence to back up your reasoning...

There really is no winning with someone who is determined to waste energy and derail discussions by being provocative ah, but I'm not being provocative. I just want to engage.

With people like this, I have found that engage means having them tell you how you are wrong.

Timewasters. They are not interested in discussions or in our viewpoints. I don't know whether that's because they are men, or they are associated with the industries that they claim not to be defending. Probably a bit of both!

I'm off to John Lewis tomorrow if anyone is interested.

And for the third time of asking, why are you here, David?

My little brother (he's 18) works on the tills/in the back at M&S (please forgive him, he is saving for his gap year trip and there aren't many jobs around!) and at first he didn't see the problem but he's been convinced :o So we're getting through to some people, at least.

AND he's promised to bring it up with his managers and make a big deal about being really worried about customer relations, brand integrity, PR, etc. He's quite respected, he's only been there a few months but he keeps being offered more hours and has won lots of company prizes for things, so his peers and managers might take note? It's not much but if lots of their own staff start objecting to it, it might mean something? He's trying, at least.

That's great, KittyTwoShoes. Thanks for that. I was thinking that it would be good to talk to the managers of local stores as well. I have no issue with them. They might even agree with us (have had this happen before).

I love John Lewis. One of my favourite shops!

BIWI - don't encourage him!! Although he is useful for bumping the thread up, I suppose!

The lack of an answer to my last question says it all.

I'll leave you to your cosy, cult-like consensus; mutual back-slapping, and the passive solidarity of your boycott.

Why was I here? Well its obvious isn't it, I'm a paid agitator for Hooters, Marks and Spencer, 'the sex industry'.......

Now I really must get some sleep, big day ahead preparing my bill.

Seriously, some of you need to get a grip of your paranoia and persecution complex.

PS thanks for the tip about 'shrill'

Thanks David -- you've ensured this stays in active convos long enough for me to finally open it. Had no idea what Hooters was but now am very happy to join the boycott.

"Seriously, some of you need to get a grip of your paranoia and persecution complex"

silly man

DavidStHubbins wrote - "The lack of an answer to my last question says it all."

As does your lack of an answer to my last question to you.

PMSL! If you want tips on how to make your point without sounding like a tosser, do start a thread and link it here.

"I'll leave you........."

Bye then.

DavidStHubbins wrote - "Seriously, some of you need to get a grip of your paranoia and persecution complex"

It's not paranoia, we know some people hate feminist protest. Feminists have been derided for their opinions for centuries.

Do you know, I think I preferred Mike! At least his misogyny and contempt weren't hidden by a pretend attempt to want to engage.

Bye, David. It was fun.

the lack of an answer to his last question really did say it all: No-one is interested in talking to him.

:o

Ha! I just went back to read his 'last question'. What an arrogant, patronising twat he is.

Do you think e.g. Greenpeace get this shit?

"Oh, is there anything I can do to change your mind about pumping pollutants into the rivers being a bad idea?" or similar?