The advice that's always MISSING from 'rape prevention' tip sheets

[SolidGoldBrass]

Which would be 'Learn self-defence/martial arts of some kind.' Not only does good martial arts training teach you how to work with the fact that your attacker may be physically bigger and stronger, but it's also supposed to do wonders for you psychologically WRT training your brain to regard yourself as not helpless when attacked.
Yet whenever there is a particularly newsworthy stranger-rapist on the prowl, the advice trotted out to women is always: stay indoors, make sure you have a male protector or at least a mob of female companions - it's never 'learn how to kick the rapist in the nuts and learn techniques that will stop you freezing with panic and feeling powerless.'

Snorbs - good post (glad to see you're not put off after your flaming the other day!).

Any ideas on how to get more men to share your point of view on rape?

What has shaped your point of view?

Although thankfully I have not been raped, I feel vulnerable as a women and as a new feminist just starting to find out the true extent of this problem - the more I find out the madder I get.

Re the OP and self defence - I think that self defence and martial arts are a good idea to increase assertiveness for women but not to try and somehow suggest that women should be able to prevent rape.

I did a self defence course at university and it certainly raised my awareness of violence against women and domestic violence and I'd like to think that it was the reason that I shouted very very loudly at a man who pinched my bum in Waterloo station.

Boy was he embarrassed and he ran off very quickly.

Just noticed a comment further up the thread:

"but remember if you injure a would be rapist you could be apprehended for assault?????"

Yes and no. Proportional and appropriate force to protect yourself is perfectly legal. If you are genuinely in fear for your life (e.g. the other person has a knife) then that force can be lethal - but you may well end up in court having to defend yourself legally.

It's tricky legal territory. Personally, I'd rather have to defend myself in court over an assault charge and feel like I did all I could to fight back and escape. A good martial arts school will reiterate again and again what's considered reasonable force. If they don't, you need to look for another school.

As a random aside - I wonder what the odds are of a woman protecting themselves against attack being convicted for assault compared to the odds of getting a rapist convicted? I've not seen any data on that.

I have such fond memories of the self defense course I went on during my militant feminist stage at university (still a feminist, just too old to be quite so shouty about it these days)

We were taught how to break choke holds, how to break fingers, how to gather evidence (wiming our hands on clothes to capture hair etc). Most usefully, we were taught the mantra "Turn fear into anger" and how to make guys back off when they were being sleazy.

There's one technique I've used several times with devestating effect. Just behing the ear, where the earlobe meets the skull, there is quite a tender place. Put your index finger there (works even better if you have long nails) and push (I find shoutin Ps O at the same time enhances the effect). I've had huge guys leap away in fright and piss off embarassed that a women can effectivly shove them off with the force of a single finger.

I remember studying an ad campaign that a county or city in America had developed, it was a massive billboard campaign featuring strong women...

Such as 2000 women in this city have a black belt in Karate - you never know who will bump into.

or we have 1000 Female Fire Fighters.

Anyway it was ground breaking and the result of it was that it made women feel stronger and safer and there was a reduction of crimes committed against women.

FWIW I am cutting and pasting an email I sent back in June after seeing one too many articles advising women 'how to avoid being raped'.

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I want to complain about an article in this week?s ?wellbeing works? email about date rape. The headline you used is: Date Rape: don?t become another statistic and the article goes on to tell women what they should do to avoid being raped.

I think it would be more welcome in this day and age to stop focussing on how women should modify their behaviour in relation to this terrible crime. Women?s behaviour is not what is the problem here ? it is the behaviour of a small minority of men which is the issue. Women who are raped are victims of a crime and do not need to be made to feel guilty that it may be somehow ?their fault? because they had a drink after work or walked home from the tube station on their own in the dark. If the streets are not safe for women because ill-intentioned men might be lurking, I would suggest it is therefore men who should be careful how much they drink, ensure people know where they are, and arrange to be accompanied home late at night so as to keep the streets safe for entirely law-abiding women to go about their business.

Perhaps instead you could run an article aimed at men entitled: 'No means no: don?t become another statistic' warning them that it?s not acceptable to force yourself onto a female colleague just because she is drunk and her guard may be down, and that such behaviour could and should land them with a jail term.

I?d appreciate a response with your thoughts on this.

novicemama well done for taking the time to email about the article.

What was their response?

. That is a good email Novicemama.

wasn't there a school of thought which said fighting back can actually make a situation worse?

To be fair, I did get a response from them as follows:

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Thank you for your comments on the article ?Date Rape: don?t become another statistic?.

You make an excellent point and we will most certainly modify the article.

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Ding ding round one! These assumptions have to be challenges wherever we see them or nothing will ever change.

In what way DuelingFanjo?

Actually, the first thing you are taught in martial arts training is 'if you can, run!' You are taught to fight/defend yourself only if there is no alternative. Bloody good advice, too.

I just remember that years ago there was a suggestion that by fighting back you could put your life in danger and it was better to be vocal but not aggressive. Not saying I agree with this but I think the idea was that rape can easily become murder etc

sleepypjs, I've bookmarked that to show both of my teens later, thank you.
With regards to fighting back, I think the theory is that it might escalate the violence and so a vicious attack could end with a beating or murder.

Duelling: yes in that if you can escape and choose the fighting route then you could make the situation much worse. No, in that I believe there have been studies that people who have at least tried to fight back have coped better in the aftermath than those who haven't.

In reality, each situation has so many different variables, really have you to make your own decision at that time - having the tools at your disposal to make that decision certainly helps.

Well the first part of the video is powerful and when you think of the expensive advertising that promotes sexual violence, it demonstrates to me how mainstream it is, and to question the status quo in society takes a lot of guts in teen circles.

To be more clear, when I refer to having tools, I don't just mean knowing how to throw or block a punch. I mean:

• having situational/spatial awareness of who is around you at all times and a rough idea of what sort of threat they could be to you.
• Knowing about 'telegraphing' (the tiny muscle movements that show before someone tries to punch or grab).
• Being aware of what other things are around you that could be used as a weapon in a pinch.
• Knowing body language/other signs that talking your way out isn't working.
• Knowing to keep your hands in front of you, about the triangle of personal space that as soon as someone crosses that you didn't invite in then you HAVE to have your guard up.
• Having the footwork and knowledge of body mechanics to get the fuck out of the way.
• Having the confidence to look less like a target.

ALL of these are just as important as the actual "defend yourself from punch/throat grab/knife attack" moves.

The arguments about fighting back are, I believe largely dependent on the personality of the attacker. Some rapists are undoubtedly turned on by the struggle and a fight (it is a myth that rape is entirley about power and dominance there is in some -not all- cases a varying degree of sexual element).

Other rapists want a passive victim. Most rapists have a predefined scenario and outcome to their rape before it starts. If that scenario is challenged by the victim then the attack may not be persued. It is of course impossible to know which type of attacker yours is.

In terms of victim recovery after the event, I believe studies have shown that those who have fought back are better able to reconcile their feelings as to what happened to them and are often comforted by the idea that "they did everything they could".

RubberDuck: Yes, that's the sort of thing I mean about the good attitudes martial arts teach.
But it still seems to me that a lot of people are very disturbed by the idea of women being able to defend themselves, of women not being weak and vulnerable. Even 'nice' (ie non-violent and supporters of equality and all that) men sometimes get quite insistent that women can't defend themselves because one of the fundamental building blocks of the patriarchy is the myth that women need to 'belong' to one man to be protected from all the others - so women have to please the man who owns them or he will withdraw his protection-from-rape.

SGB, in a fight I'd back my ability to protect myself against my OH's
The children would know where their best chances lay too.

"But it still seems to me that a lot of people are very disturbed by the idea of women being able to defend themselves"

Yes, most people assume I do a martial art because dh does (he does nothing of the kind, he's a mild-mannered computer programmer )

My mother has accused me of being selfish because we're thinking of converting part of the garage for a training area for me. I would lay odds if it was ds1 who was taking a martial art and needed the space she'd be all for it.

And don't get me started on the reactions when I get bruised during training! It did make me laugh when one person in the playground went on and on about how dangerous a 'sport' I was into, only then to start telling me about her planned skiing holiday...

i know this is an isolated case but my best friend and i joined a jujitsu class for this very reason when we were 15. to start with there were other girls tehre but as the weeks went on they dropped out and after a while bf and me were the only girls there. i have never felt so intimidated in my life as i did when i was in that class for 90 minutes every tuesday. bf felt the same and thankfully our parents agreed to us stopping the class but honestly it instilled absolutely no confidence in me whatsoever when those men took turns to 'spar' with us until we tapped out (submitted). we knew what was going on and we could tell they were enjoying it. i dread to think what would have happened had bf not been able to make it one night and i was alone.

im sorry SGB but for once i am going to disagree with you.

For many rapists it is not about sexual desire but about power.

when a woman striggles and fights abck they see it as a kind of fore play.
IF the rapist then overpowers the woman it is highly likely that the violance has been escelated by her struggles and attempts at fighting him off.

it is oftem more dangerous to fight back.

I can totally see the point of this, and I generally think that encouraging girls and women to enjoy teh physicality of their own bodies, and to be able to use their bodies and know how they work and be confident etc is a great thing.

As for adding it to the list of what "women can do"...

• Most rapes are by someone that you know, and many women freeze etc. If someone you know/trust does something, I think it's pretty unlikely that most women would actually do a kung-fu kick and leg it. Many women are too shocked to really do anything
• I'm a bit disabled - not in a way that you'd notice - but a lot of this stuff would be beyond me. Where does this advice leave women who can't "follow the instructions" due to limitations of their own bodies? Disabled people (I mean more disabled than me) are more likely to be abused than others - because they are vulnerable. Like someone else said upthread you might get into "oh well she didn't so her self defence course so she brought it on herself really

I think that I agree with the other comments upthread - enough already with telling women what to do/not to do - it's time to tackle the root of the problem ie the men who rape.

I think that running more courses and classes for women to learn how to enjoy their physicality and use their bodies and enjoy exercise would be great though. Preferably ones which accept a range of abilities and disabilities.