Where are the men's campaigns?

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

...for flexible working?

...for shared parental leave?

...for a national 24 hour rape crisis phoneline?

...for better treatment of victims of DV? (I am aware of the White Ribbon Campaign to raise awareness of DV, but not clear on what they actually do if anything)

And for all the other issues that we are told affect men too.

Do they exist? Will be delighted to hear that they do and I am just ignorant.

If not, why not?

Families Need Fathers campaigns for flexible working and better parental leave. I'd be surprised if there weren't any others. This is alongside their more well-known campaigns to help keep fathers involved and included in their children's lives after separation.

There are a number of groups who help male victims of DV - ManKind and Men's Advice Line are two that I've spoken to but I think there are a few more - and they also run campaigns. But they don't (as far as I am aware) get any state funding so their ability to be heard is limited. Shame that the government-funded National Domestic Violence Helpline won't speak to, or for, male victims.

I don't know much about rape crisis phonelines because I'm fortunate enough that I have never had need of their services. A quick google suggests that Survivors UK helps male victims of rape but I don't know how much campaigning they do.

Sorry about your DH, TBE.

I was just wondering where men are on campaigning on the issues, or whether it was restricted to approaching feminists to tell them "it happens to men too" and that we should be doing something about it.

A bit to see that mankind supports anonymity for men accused of rape, although they argue that false accusations (or the threat of) form part of DV situations, which is an aspect I hadn't considered.

If men and women were campaigning together for flexible working etc etc etc it would be much more powerful. I get wound up when these issues come up in The West Wing and it's all "we need women! get us policies for women!"

Snorbs wrote "ManKind and Men's Advice Line are two that I've spoken to but I think there are a few more - and they also run campaigns. But they don't (as far as I am aware) get any state funding".

I believe that in their 2010 election manifestos, the Labour Party and SNP included a commitment to maintain existing state funding of Men's Advice Line. I don't know what the coalition's current policy plans for the advice line are.

The website of Men's Advice Line currently states that they are "supported" by the UK Home Office and Scottish Government.

Good for him, TBE, he sounds like a decent chap.

I don't understand, since these issues affect men too, why feminist groups and these groups aren't working together. Or are they?

Would WA for example count itself as a feminist group?

where are the crowds of whatabouts then? I was hoping loads of them would show up and we could start working togevver.

www.ncdv.org.uk/

www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/

www.mankind.org.uk/

www.respect.uk.net/

www.fnf.org.uk/

www.mankind.org.uk/typesdomesticabuse.html

Women withholding sexual intercourse is a form of domestic violence to men?!

Brilliant.

The TUC, many trade unions, and I think EHRC campaign for flexible working for both men and women and improved parental/paternity leave.

Yes I'd imagine the trade unions would be the best place to start, politically - at least for the shared leave, flexible working etc.

"Witholding sex and affection" as a sign of sexual abuse originally came from Women's Aid, I believe - ManKind just used WA's definitions. I remember seeing it on the Women's Aid website ages ago although I note the main WA site has a much shorter definition of abuse than it used to.

Some of the other Women's Aid offshoots still include it though, eg: Welsh Women's Aid - what is sexual abuse.

I would like to see more issue-based protests/demos/campaigns. I would like for example to think of Fawcett and WA and Hidden Hurt and Mankind etc all marching to downing st together to lobby for an investigation into police treatment of rape victims. Recent cases have shown that victims are being ignored, mocked, in some cases even convicted, and rapists are allowed to walk the streets.

What do you think?

Ele

I would love to everyone to gether on a march :)

EgyptVanGogh Mon 23-Aug-10 22:27:11
www.mankind.org.uk/typesdomesticabuse.html

Women withholding sexual intercourse is a form of domestic violence to men?!

it says in the title domestic abuse.

I suspect an example would be someone saying
If you don't do XXXXXXXX I won't have sex/make love to you.

or at least thats how I read it.

I must say I don't understand that withholding sex thing - how is that a form of abuse? It's not very nice certainly but I don't think anyone has a "right" to sex. You are not withholding sex, you are just choosing not to have it.

But willing to be persuaded if someone can give me an example of how this would work.

I have a horrible feeling that the men's groups wouldn't come because they would have pressure from their members (oh god what a pun) to not "make it easier for rape convictions to happen" - whatever the actual aim of the march was. There are IMO a lot of rapists out there ready to denounce anything that makes things easier for victims.

That's obviously a risk, and I can always see why some groups decide to be women-only, you need people to be and to feel safe.

But if marching with men (some of whom are rape victims) can lead to a better result, then I don't think that idea should be thrown out just because some of them might be rapists. Some of any group of men might be rapists.

Elephants, I think withholding sex can be a form of emotional abuse, but I wouldn't categorise it as sexual abuse.

For me, sexual abuse implies actively doing something to someone - withholding sex is not actually doing something. It can be part and parcel of emotional abuse, if it is ongoing and one of a range of other abusive behaviours. (That applies to both sexes IMO.) As with so many emotional abuses, thinking about it.

It can be difficult to define because like harrassment, one instance may not be abuse but as part of a range of behaviours, when seen together there is no doubt that abuse is going on. I think that's why people get in a bit of a knot with this one - because not fancying sex one night, or swearing at your DP and calling them an idiot once, is not necessarily emotionally abusive, but if you're doing it all the time and you're also abusive in other ways, then the swearing/ belittling/ sex withholding, have to be seen in that context.

Am also prepared to be persuaded, it's an interesting issue.

there have been several threads on AIBU where the suggestions have been if your partner won't do what you want withhold sex from him.

Severalof the threads suggested making sexual advances to the husband/boyfriend and then stopping.

essentially using sex or the lack of as a method of control.

I agree with HerBeatitude when she says it doesn't always come under sexual abuse.

BBJ - the stereotype is always of women withholding sex as a negotiation tool (which perhaps is why men's groups are so keen to get it defined as emotional abuse - shall we classify not putting the bins out as EA as well?) - but it would be interesting to know how common it is the other way round.

I know loads of women who complain they aren't getting enough sex. I don't think it's emotional abuse as such, just that their husbands are fat and tired. But they don't talk about that when men are around, they play up to that image of being put upon and being hassled for sex by their DH's. And lots of the men I know appear to play up to that image of never getting enough, when I have visions of them having a home life very like George and Mildred (remember Yootha Joyce and her negligees and George quaking in horror? Am showing my age there...)

the stereotype is always of women withholding sex as a negotiation tool (which perhaps is why men's groups are so keen to get it defined as emotional abuse - shall we classify not putting the bins out as EA as well?)

Yes, the stereotype and we all know that stereotypes are true don't we?

Domestic abuse of the sort that I suffered was all about control, day in and day out, full of emotional blackmail, belittling and putting down, making promises then denying that the where ever made, threats to go to the police.

I can tell you that withholding of affection and sex happens but I still can't explain it because I don't understand why you would do that to someone you are supposed to love.

Kenyan women on sex strike to end violence