If you're in a heterosexual relationship, how do you assert your feminist principles?

[kittycat37]

I'm interested in what others say about this because I think about it with my own relationship - I'm not sure how successful I am.

Within the bounds of our own relationship I think it works quite well - the problems arise from outside influences.

For instance, if it's just me, DH and DCs at home we take equal responsility for them.

However if MIL is there, she'll start saying to DCs 'tell Mummy to wipe your nose' etc as though it's SOLELY my responsiblity. She'll react as though anything DH does in that realm is AMAZING (just because he's male).
She doesn't do it maliciously, but it really annoys me and one of these days I know I will snap at her which won't be productive.

Also whilst DH and I take equal finacial responsiblity, I find I'm often subject to the 'how do you manage to work AND have kids?' rubbish which he never is, as far as I can tell.

None of these things are earth shattering, obviously, but I think they do have a subtle effect which potentially can be quite pernicious - do any of you wiser feminists than me have strategies for dealing with the daily shit I'm describing?

Thefowlandthepussycat - I find looking after children by far the most interesting thing I have done both in nursery and bringing up my own. I dont think any of it is boring tbh. My husband does see it as his job and he works full time though so maybe thats why we differ.

He sees it as an equal job as what I do. I dont do all the things like shopping though often without him. I just wait for him to come home so he can drive me there. I purposely wait until he is off for a lot of stuff so we do it together.

Well it's something to keep challenging, but the way it gets challenged is up to you. I've long given up in-your-face challenges, but I do invariably challenge responses.

So, at work, when they ask 'how do you do it?' I respond along the lines that I do it in precisely the same way as my husband does - we muddle through in an organised way by sharing the load.

At home, well I don't have any dinosaur friends or relations but there are odd acquaintances, and I just explain that that's not how we are.

Another area where it becomes really difficult is when a dh becomes famous/powerful/rich. I have found myself in the 'invisible wife syndrome' situation coined by Edna Healey, and have been asked at social gatherings repeatedly about what my dh thinks etc etc. Being married to one of these alpha males when one does not have the same level of power in the world can be trying, especially in social situations.While it is about the wider picture of power imbalance, which might also be felt by the h of a powerful woman, somehow being a woman who is seen as some sort of appendage is hard to stomach as a feminist.

gorgeousone have you seen the thread in chat about Gia Milinovich, Brian Cox's wife?

She was siting "invisibe wife syndrome".

Is this men asking you what your DH thinks or women. Would you feel comfortable saying "oh well you'll have to ask him - what I think is XYZ".

gorgeousone - that is insanely irritating. I've had it myself a small amount as DH is well known in the field that we both used to work in before I had DCs.

It's actually been influential in my decision to re-train and go into another area - in a way that is maybe a cop out but I feel so much that I need a professional identity that is mine alone.

Hi Tabouleh,
Thanks for that; I checked that out and I know exactly how she feels.
It's actually both genders who have been guilty of those remarks. I am now very forthright, and always reply ' I think that's something you would have to ask him'.Apparently some people have found that rude!

and Kitty Kat - I did the same and am successful in my own professional area, but it does not have the same pulling power or kudos as his, because it does not have any power attached to it.

LOL I recall several occasions when DH and I have been attending Dinners and recitals in his capacity as a Governor and I was asked by the Chair and others , 'why don't we see you with DH here more often'? My reply was polite , with a smile, " I don't come with the job'.....and it took me ages to get these town worthies to address mail to Ms followed by my own name, rather than Mr & Mrs John Doe...as if as a womon, one remains for ever an appendage to the male you are living with.....
I have even had men argue that 'this form of address is protocol and good manners!!! here I insist it is not good manners to render me invisible, with or without a proto-bloody-col.......

Have read this thread with interest!

Whenever I've spoken to other women about our partners/husbands I'm always met with amazement with regards to how much my husband does around the house. He cooks and cleans more than me, will run errands for me, would do absolutely anything for me (I don't take advantage though, honestly!)

My MIL is a fairly 'strong' woman, so my DH was brought up in a house that had a very hands on father.

Women have said he's 'well trained' and men have said he's 'under the thumb'. The amount of times I've heard female friends/colleagues complain that their partners don't do anything to help is astounding.

I have one friend who has a stressful job (with alot of work to be done at home in the evenings as well), a baby to look after and a house that she feels must be immaculate. Her hubby doesn't lift a finger- not only that but he has to have an ironed shirt EVERY day, even at weekends when he's at home. Which she does for him.

Why do women put up with this?

Foreverastudent - I am intrigued by your comments on the birth certificate/surname. Isn't this removing your DP from the equation somewhat, rather than necessarily managing a balanced approach?

I am interested in your phrase relating to the 'sacrifices' you made to have a baby - what would you consider these to be? Would you say your DP made any similar sacrifices? How does he feel about not having his name on the birth certificate (the name issue is probably slightly more 'cosmetic' if I can use that term)...surely that's just a statement of fact, you are both your DD's parents?

I am not anti-feminist, genuinely interested in your position.

I've made huge sacrifices. Firstly I was sacked for getting pregnant- my employers said they didnt think mothers with young children should work . Normally I could bounce back and get another job but this happened in the middle of the recession and I've now been out of work for 3 years. not only have I lost pay for these years but the lack of work experience will harm my long term earnings. This massive drop in income has meant I havent been able to get a bigger mortgage so we've been stuck in an overcrowded flat all this time and for the foreseeable future. I've gone without holidays, haircuts, a social life- all things in my life which have changed but haven't changed in DP's life.

Secondly it was a big physical sacrifice having a baby. I put on loads of weight and am left with strechmarks and an overhang and breasts that are so big I could get a reduction on the NHS. I also suffered PND to the point of near suicide. I also had to endure an emotionally scarring birth. Then there's the breastfeeding, heartburn, morning sickness, UTIs, lochia, thrush, and mood swings thatare a normal part of pregnancy.

I didnt mind going through all of this, it was worth it and I'd do it again. But you cant say that I haven't made far more sacrifices than my DP in having our child.

2 main reasons for the name thing-

-DP is anti-marriage and I want my DCs to have the same name as me

-I already have one DS and I want all my DCs to have the same surname

Also DP grew up without a Dad so isn't attached to his surname.

Well, I sincerely hope you sued their asses for that ridiculous comment, as that is just blatant sex discrimination. What field did you work in? I am in HR, and whatever dunderhead managers I have had to work with in the past, I have never heard anyone come out with something SO blatantly wrong.

Again, in the spirit of genuine interest - why have you gone without holidays/haircuts/social life, but your DP has not? I would have thought these things are part of the family unit, not accessible to one partner, but not the other?

I get the physical sacrifice of carrying/having the baby - but I need to have a bit more of a think before coming up with my next set of questions around that

HoneEcoGnomist.....have you ever had a baby? If you have I am uncertain as to why you would ask our poster such 'random' questions at all ...and when she fully and honestly responds, your repost is rather trite and is then proceeded by further banality......

You should take it as read that 'she' has decided to have her DC named after herself....what is the problem with that...her effort, her choice.

OP -

we have a similar situation - for DH and I this isn't a big struggle (and I am a SAMH, he works out of the home and earns all the money). And mu Mum and MIL and other older folk like to comment "oh, isn't he good " when he folds a load of washing. And we just ignor it mostly, or DH may say "yes, Astro was so very good today, and she folded 2 loads".

Generally speaking I do struggle a bit not having an income - not because DH lords it over me (he NEVER does) - but because he gets the first information about our finance - eg, he may suspect he will get a bonus - or not be getting one - and have that in the back of his mind and make financial decisions around that, but I don't have that foreknowledge. So its not that he withholds info, but that he is in that headspace earlier than me - and the same goes for me and the kids - I have in mind where theyneed to be, what they are doing etc etc, and then share that knowledge with him - but the knowledge starts with me IYSWIM

Having said that, DH does all the ironing (incl mine), and I thank him for doing mine. I do most of the cooking becuse he is at work at the time the meal needs preparing. He thanks me for the meals. I generally do ask DH to do laundry in the evenings, and that does annoy me (that I have to ask), but he always does it and not with the attitude of "helping me" (as my mother says).

I'm actually really hapy to help DH, cook for him, clean the bathroom etc, not because I like to do it, or because I have to, but because I love him. And he does the same for me.

Kittycat, firstly get rid of thinking about your MIL as if she was the enemy, she too like most of us who are or have lived within the institution of marriage fall into the trap of role playing; me=wife, you = MIL, and all before you get to know one another as separate women.
Remember she has been brain washed too,and no doubt if you managed to get to know the woman behind the mask of MIL, you both would find you have more in common than you ever thought possible. It does require a new way of thinking, if you are both willing to explore. About nose wiping-- maybe just hand her aa tissue with saying a word, surely no RS! ( rocket science).
You and she are prisoners of the dire role of wife bad for yr health. Good luck and dont make her the enemy think about it.

Walksfarwoman - thanks for that patronising contribution. I didn't realise I had to have my questions vetted so YOU didn't find them 'trite' and 'banal'. The poster I was actually addressing them to didn't seem to mind, but I guess that doesn't matter if it bothers you so much

FWIW, yes, I do have TWO children - who have taken our surname, as DH and I both have the same name. I have never considered the bearing of children to be a sacrifice that I have made and therefore expect a quid pro quo in terms of names/birth certificates etc. I find that quite a strange position to take, but wanted to understand more before judging that approach.

I hope I have justified my existence appropriately.

Foreverastudent - thanks for your replies to my questions, I will leave it there, this topic is clearly not for me...