How brave is this woman?

[shimmerysilverglitter]

I have already posted this on the In The News Board but I wanted to discuss it here. I knew Saudi women had a hard time of it but I did not realise that in a so-called developed country that women are not even allowed to drive!

saudi women beats up virtue cop.

As I said on the other thread I cannot imagine how desperate this woman must have felt knowing how severe her punishment would be for doing something she has every right to be doing. I can't begin to imagine this kind of life.

It says at the end of the article that there are changes happening in Saudi with regards to attitudes towards women, does anyone know anymore about this subject? because I am woefully ignorant and I don't think I should be.

my opinion is not about this book BTW, I don'T give a fig about that

My opinion is about what would be the best way to proceed WRT Saudi women's situation

So what does half the sky do?

"Excuse me: I would LOVE to interfere in India, Saudi, south east Asia. but there are parallels with the missionaryprocess and I take them seriously."

Sorry, what does this mean? You do want to interfere?

I'm not sure i thought they worked with children but it seems they also have things to do with trafficking of women e.g. www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/aug/19/women-slavery-half-the-sky

When i said have things to do with trafficking of women i meant trying to help stop the problem.

Okay, I never thought I'd see the day I ever said this but
I.think.I.agree.with. earwicga .

She made a point about the authors being high up in Goldman Sachs or something. About it all being one big marketing ploy

Appletrees, what is Half the Sky's take on sanctions? Are they for or against?

If they are against sanctions, how can they justify getting involved in any other way?

No I am not involved. And I'm entitled to think your opinion in worthless when you haven't read it.

What is this about? How can you not Thu.k it is a tri ky issue?

Appletrees, what do *you think about economic sanctions in helping the situation of Saudi women?

I lived in a former colonial country. Conditions for women were deplorable. Given our history of colonialism, combined with the current sensitivity about cultural respect and racism, obviously, obviously, whether you interfere in any way is a very difficult issue. That's all I am saying. You just don't seem to think it is an issue at all.

I think it's a very important issue, which is why I've been questioning your opinion about economic sanctions. DO you think it's a good thing or a bad thing in the Saudi women case?

There is a Sharp contrast between the utopian ideal, which would be lovely and we would all agree on it, which you (in yr opinion and t h probably mine too) is worth campaigning.g for. Then there is dire t interfering on. The ground action, buying and freeing slave prostitutes, protecting and educating runaway girls etc. It is interesting and difficult, as the direct action seems to get more results. "seems".. I don't really know.

What opinion? I haven't expressed one. Yes, sanctions, definitely.

Sanctions are not Utopian, The US imposes them on a number of countries around the world, but it doesn' t impose them on Saudi because of the lucrative oil trade

Do you think sanctions should be imposed on Saudi, just like they are on other countries, or do you think we shouldn't?

X posts

YOu think we should impose sanctions.

If we impose sanctions on Saudi, Saudi women's problems would dissappear overnight.

THat is the only point I wanted to make. That there is a very simple way of solving Saudi women's problems.

Not true. Look at the history of sanctions.

Sakura are you a student?

Well yes, I think I was overshooting when I said "simple"

BUt whichever way you interfere, whether it's through a campaign, or by sanctions, it probably won't have much of an effect on the whole. I do think the revolution has to be a grass-roots one.

BUt I think if the West does want to interfere in any way, sanctions are the most efficient way of interfering IYSWIM

SO do you think campaigning is better than sanctioning?

Not a student, I just feel sometimes that governments try to "keep the wimmin happy" with LED lightbulbs for the environment and campaigns for Saudi women etc instead of giving them any real power to make real changes

I almost wish I hadn't read that about the girls dying.

It really brings home how important this feminism malarky is, doesn't it.

When people come on these threads and say "you're a bunch of man hating freaks", then what, this is the sort of thing they like to see going on? Grown men leaving children to die simply because they are girls? For fucks sake.

Given is so sensible.. yes I agree with sanctions, certainly in principle, but they are not a magic bullet.

it's an absolute certainty that those who suffer first and worst will be those one is trying to help, and there may be no great change effected.

I think you are wrong to say they should be the first choice of weapon.. and that direct a tion is less helpful, less empowering g. I think it is possible to be well intentioned and idealistic but less than pragmatic. I think you might be on that path.

isn't I so agree with you, but at the same time there has been very little interest in the feminist topic in the international issue. It puts me off, I've thought for a while it was up its arse, but then I said that the other day.

In fact one of the biggest problems with the issue is a left right clash. Left of centre, feminist, progressive, culture respecting principles don't really match with "let's go and tell a lot of foreigners how to live their lives". But that is what we want to do in the name of fighting oppression. It is a built in problem.

Actally it is most efficiently encapsulated in the burkha issue, for obvious reasons.

Sanctions often don't help and are used by the local government as a propaganda tool. Those in power are not affected. Look at Zimbabwe.

well absolutely, and Iraq, n Koran etc. no panacea there for sure.

Sakura you must see it's silly to condemn direct action campaigns as "imperialist" and in the next breath laud sanctions as a method of making people do what we want. it's not as simple as that.

North Korea ahem