Sexual fantasies

[BurningBuntingFlipFlop]

Many women have fantasies of rape, being controlled, abused etc (in a safe, loving relationship). Do you think this is due to patriarchal society conditioning us or are these genuine harmless desires?

I agree with Colditz that for me it is about the relinquishing of responsibility as much as anything.

I didn't consider any of Ms Friday's books to be pornographic.

I am really coming to the idea that like much of the media, we get what we're given, and it was what one small group of people (ie the people providing it) like, and their tastes are then pushed onto everyone else etc.

Has anyone actually asked lots of men what sort of pornography they would like to see, I wonder, rather than looking at what they are given, IYSWIM.

A lot of men fantasise about being dominated by a powerful woman, for example. This is not reflected much in mainstream porn. That seems odd.

I do think that asking men what their fantasies are would be useful, and to see whether what is being supplied ties in.

So to know whether it is in fact the case that the vast majority of men like to see women being actively abused, or whether in fact they would like to see something else but in the event it is not provided then they get what they are given IYSWIM.

I have a concern generally that what the media feed people isn't actually what they want, but through exposure it becomes what they want.

I suppose it's also because I know men who would prefer pornogrpahy which depicted men being controlled by women, but what is available on "mainstream" sites does not reflect that.

All good points. I suppose I just feel uncomfortable with the idea that the prevalence of this pornography (pretty openly abusive) + viewing it = man who is arsehole woman hater. Because they've all seen it, and I know they aren't all arseholes IYSWIM.

I read the Nancy Friday books years ago and she asked men and women what their fantasies were. I can't remember much about the books anymore. I agree with ISNT that people are influenced by what they are fed by the media. There was the thread about the Inbetweeners comedy show, which I think encourages people to accept crude and sexist vulgarity as being the norm, or f-words in every Hollywood movie and the Eminem DV video etc. I think these are being fed to people and are changing people's perceptions.

Porn is the same. The men running the porn companies are immoral and release violent, extreme and degrading porn in order to make money and also in order to push boundaries and intentionally deprave. I don't think that they even like it themselves, I think they use it as a tool, just as the big drug kingpins push heroin but are never hooked on it themselves and actually despise their junkie customers. The porn barons are the same as the drug pushers. They know that it is a part of human nature to always push boundaries and seek out new shocking material. That's why we get shock art, even the cubists were shock artists and many modern artists want to shock their audiences. The horror movie makers are the same and their films are ever more explicit and violent. The porn pedallers also push the boundaries and release more extreme material in order to feed on this part of human nature. The porn pedallers are dangerous because they normalise things that were taboo and deprave the viewers of the porn.

vesuvia - Has anybody read any of those books?

Yes, indeed, vesuvia, and it goes to show it's not just men with some odd views.

Have to agree with ISNT, by the way, that there's a lot out there but no guarantee it's what men actually want, but what the makers believe men (and in some cases women) want.

There's a lot of material I have no interest in, yet seemingly a glut if it available for free, because the Australian and N American markets seem to go for certain activities.

"viewing it in an ongoing manner"

rather presumptious that all men are thick and don't get bored / make choices.

I wouldn't want to offend by describing anything I've watched, dittany, but some has been made by women, for men and women, from a very popular Australian firm. Much of what the Europeans like Private and US studios like Hustler do is disrespectful and not of interest.

Also, dittany, I was hardly 'boasting' about being a porn user. You seem to have so much knowledge on the matter under discussion I feel I must bow to your greater 'viewing' capacity and variety, since you've clearly seen all there is to see in the range of porn available, both for men (straight and gay) and women.

Claig put very well what I was getting at.

Re the viewing and ongoing viewing - I think a lot of porn is viewed by teenage boys and young men - and a lot of the time they are watching things with their friends, looking for shock value, there is peer pressure etc. So then the problem is that what they are viewing becomes the norm for them - does it impact on their developing sexual tastes etc.

This is a huge problem, isn't it.

I wonder if the men who are women hating arseholes consume a lot more porn than others, and so they are the ones driving the market.

i don't know.

I am trying to find a way to explain away the existence of, and popularity of the nastier porn, I can see what I'm doing.

God I hate this section sometimes. And this is what feminists think matters.

I have fantasies about raping a man or a man raping me all the time. It just turns me on. I dont think it is to do with sexual condition its just one of my fantasies. My main fantasy is always me being with numerous men, or cuckold type stuff or watching my husband with others, tying him up etc.

I just think what turns you on, turns you on. No secret agendas but everyone has their likes and dislikes.

'Can't believe some bloke would come into the Feminist section and boast about being a porn user. Why do you get off on watching women prostituted, degraded and abused - because that's what porn is.'

Thats just your opinion and I am a woman and dont think that. I watch amateur porn on youporn etc every day (I like it best as it isnt cheesy, fake or have annoying music in it) Not all porn is bad and many women enjoy watching porn regularly.

Appletrees if you aren't interested in talking about these things why don't you start a thread about something you are interested in, rather than going around different threads telling people that the conversations they are having are stupid.

FWIW I think that pornography is a very important issue for feminists. I also think that messages surrounding sex for both men and women are very important, in that I think that sexual assault and abuse of women is very important.

If you don't want to talk about it then start a thread about something else.

I have, no one is ever that interested. So I look out for ones that ARE worth posting on, then end up in the section and see this kind of blither. Then get so cross I stay away and avoid for a while.

I am entitled to my opinion of the op. In fact I think it's important to let people know it's not necessarily that important. And the op isn't about pornography, which I agree is a solid topic. Was giving my opinion on the op.

Isn't it relevant to read threads and see how conversations progress? I don't see the point of just reading OPs. Conversations on MN hardly ever stay on track.