Brand new...not sure of how to deal with things

[UmYeahLikeTotally]

Hi everyone,

I've been lurking around here for some time now; and because of the things I've read on here I've decided to look further into feminism. You have all inspired me to really understand what it means to be a feminist today, and so far I've bought two books to help me: The Equality Illusion, and Female Chauvanist Pigs.

Anyway, my worry is how to deal with negative reactions from others. For example, today I was reading FCP's on my lunch break at work. A colleague asked me what the book was about (because the silhouette of the curvy lady on the front sparked his attention ). When I replied:

"It's a feminist book looking at how women are objectified in today's porno culture"

He and another (male) colleague just started laughing their heads off at me. REALLY laughing. One of them said: "Oh, you can identify with that, can you?!" Sarcasm

All I did was turn bright red and mumble "yes, actually".

At the moment I don't feel well enough informed to give eloquent explanations, nor do I really want to go into the ins and outs of why I'm interested in womens rights/feminism with these people....

"Well actually, yes, I can relate to this. And you know what? I did feel just like an object when a man drugged me and had sex with me whilst I was comatose at 16 years old. Does that answer your question??!!"

Rant over, apologies ladies, just looking for some advice or tips if you have any! Sorry if this subject has been covered before, thanks for reading.

Hi UmYeah.

Sorry people have been acting like twats around you (and for your experience as a teenager :(), it's how some people show their discomfort that women are actually catching on to the whole keep-them-down game.

You don't need to explain yourself to them. You certainly don't need to give them personal details about your life, it's none of their business. Actually I think your answer was perfect. Now they know that you are not afraid to stand up for yourself. They are probably scared of you now...

Blimey dittany that's a bit extreme. Why shouldn't you talk to men (not total idiots in a group like this lot obv) about feminism? If you can change women's views on it by coming up with a bit of truth in opposition to all the bullshit around, why not men's?

Also, it's a good measure of whether people are total arseholes or not. I'm quite upfront about being a feminist, and it sorts the egalitarian sheep from the sexist goats sharpish.

Hi Um,

I have also recently been more open about my feminist thinking and it is hard to deal with either the blatant sexism or even (and as bad) the indifference from men and women. I really think that people think the battle has been won in many respects and it is through these boards that I am starting to argue that it is no where near that. The amount of people that have experiences like yours is just horrific

With regards to who I mix with, it is people views of feminsists, rather than feminism, that sometimes seems to be the issue, iyswim. And so I tend to temper my responses to who is asking.

I don't have loads of witty or pithy responses, but I am also slowly beginning to not to give a fig about what they think, maybe that is my start.

"How would you feel if there were pictures of oiled up nearly naked hunks with bulging crotches on every bus stop?"

I think work is a necessary space to make a feminist point sometimes though. I used to work in an all-female team, apart from one man who would always avoid making tea/photocopying/any monotonous task that the team needed doing. I felt I had to point out to the other women that he wasn't doing these things because he thought this was our job (not literally, but as women). I then challenged him on it and we kind of went on strike, refusing to do his share of every task. It did work eventually, when he was thirsty and had no copies of documents and had to have a meeting in a corridor because no-one had booked a meeting room

UmYeah - welcome! Advice/tips - well not sure what I'd have done in your position today.

You might want to take a look at www.stopsexistremarks.org/ - very useful for ideas re sexist remarks.

I found that when I first started learning about Feminism I found it hard to form my arguments and would bore discuss things with DH. A couple of weeks ago we had friends for dinner and I had a brilliant argument debate with (male) friend. I was so pleased that my reading and thinking was starting to pay off and I could respond - the topic was equality in the work place/glass ceilings etc/childcare/housework.

So keep reading things and you'll soon have some witty soundbites to answer with!

'Because women have something to gain from feminism and men have something to lose (male privilege).'

Except for the ones who wish their sisters/daughters/friends/mothers to have a fair life in a fair society.

Big mistake to keep men out of feminism, huge!

Thanks for your replies everyone.

Tabouleh - thanks for the link, that site looks great; I'm going to have a nose on there today.

Dittany - I mostly agree with you about bringing up the subject at work - I feel as though (at the moment) it's quite a personal thing for me, and I don't really want to talk to them about it.

What really pissed me off is the fact that THEY bought it up by asking ME what my book was about (I think they thought it was a saucy novel or something like that). When I responded in a way which they weren't expecting, they blatently laugh at me.

"It's a feminist book looking at how women are objectified in today's porno culture"

I am genuinely baffled! WHAT is funny about that statement??!

I'm not marching around the office crying "sexist!" at every turn; I'm quietly reading a book. It seems at the mere mention of the word "feminism", one sentence fgs!, they fall to pieces.

These are very well educated men, working in high-powered jobs, well respected, blah blah blah.... and yet they still seem to have this neanderthal way of thinking.

I'm a PA in a high profile company; and I do think there is some pressure to "dumb down". I think I'm expected to be a pretty face, get on with my work, and shut up. The only books I should read are mindless fluff. Nothing should be going on between the ears.

I'm an intelligent woman and I don't see why I should have to apologise for that.

Rant over.

You might like <a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=4.bp.blogspot.com/_b4wTVjgissI/TChhK3w2A4I/AAAAAAAAACY/MA5hivE6XZE/s1600/Satan%27s%2Bway%2Bof%2Bdistracting%2Byou%2Bfrom%2Bmaking%2Bdinner.jpg&imgrefurl=teenage-feminist.blogspot.com/2010/06/should-women-be-treated-differently.html&usg=__MA3zs70ysyAPJ14aiDE4MJ9dSF0=&h=495&w=461&sz=64&hl=en&start=0&tbnid=ScaqmDsyzBYVeM:&tbnh=148&tbnw=138&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522satan%27s%2Bway%2Bof%2Bdistracting%2Byou%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26biw%3D1366%26bih%3D576%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=821&vpy=65&dur=1673&hovh=233&hovw=217&tx=120&ty=117&ei=bbhrTNuRCMKJ4Qb80_XFAQ&oei=bbhrTNuRCMKJ4Qb80_XFAQ&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">this.

You don't have to apologise for it. And they are not well-educated, they may have passed a lot of exams but they are clearly pig-ignorant if they assume they know what a PA should be reading.

And as for the laughing, have you heard the quote from Gandhi? "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.? You're at stage 2 now, halfway

Thanks E&A, that quote is great!!! (I can't see the link at the moment as I'm at work, but I'll have a look later)

I think that they are slightly intimidated by the fact that I don't bat my lashes and simper at them.
That I'm smart and funny and can take the piss just as well as them.
But on the other hand, I'm not "like a guy". Why would I want to be??

I refuse to change the way I am to fit in with what makes other people comfortable.

Grr!! It's all so confusing. I'm usually such an upfront person, but when I'm faced with people laughing in my face for what I believe in I don't know what to say!!!!

I think that's only normal though UmYeah, it's offputting being laughed at that's why people do it. The important thing is that they see that you're not put off, you're not so scared of them laughing that you're going to start fluttering and reading Jackie Collins (unless you want to of course). You'll be fine, don't forget to take the piss out of them for being sexist twats.

Is it a good book btw?

Forgot to mention that I used to read Backlash, the Female Eunuch etc at work and it was brilliant for getting the table to yourself. "What are you reading today then, young Elephants? ...Oh."

But don't mistake this for people not respecting you for it. Most men IME do respect women for having feminist viewpoints, some to the point of fear. If you can think of a few everyday (perhaps work based) examples to talk about when the more sensible people try to talk to you about it, it might be helpful. So if they say "ooh isn't feminism a bit old fashioned" and you can say no, look how young women are all hired to be front of house staff, but there is only 1 woman on the board of the company for example.

How annoying!! I just wrote a reply and it's disappeared! Will write again...

Thanks for your advice E&M.

It's nice to know that there are more experienced women out there willing to help out a newbie like me.

About the book: yes, I think it's good for the most part. I could identify with a lot of her points; although some seemed to relate to the American culture only, which is of course quite alien to me.

I would definitely recommend FCPs, although I am certainly more excited about reading The Equality Illusion to give me a broader perspective (rather than just focussing on one topic, which FCPs does).

I once had a man (and a woman jump in to agree) tell me that if I was Reading feminist books, I should be Reading "the other side as well"

Were I sat there Reading Primo Levi, would he have told me to read some David Irving as well?? Imperfect analogy I know but it really got my back up.

Some people, I'm afraid, are in fact idiots. It's very kind of them to keep identifying themselves like this so thy can be dealt with when the revolution comes

that's a good way of looking at it!

If you were reading Martin Luther King, would you be forced to pick up some KKK writings for balance?

Ridiculous. It reminds me of people who campaign for equal rights being accused of being "just as bad" as oppressors. So if you're homophobic and you want to deny something to a gay couple (adoption/accommodation/basic civility), you accuse "the PC brigade" of being oppressive for forcing you to do something against your principles. I can't think that many people's actual "principles" rest on denying the rights of others, it's your "prejudice" actually.