How to help our daughters

[LackingInspiration]

I have four daughters. The oldest is 7. I feel a huge sense of responsibility that I (and DH, of course) bring them up to be women who value themselves, and their bodies; who will not get into relationships where they are not respected or taken seriously; who will not grow up resenting their femininity but will relish it and celebrate it.

What books should I be reading to give me good ideas about how to go about this? In particular, with regard to their periods. I hate my periods; but I yearn not to. I have read lots of times of women who celebrate their periods, and rejoice in their womanhood. I would love to be able to help my daughters grow up with the gift of not hating a week of every month of their adult lives (except for when they are pregnant and/or exclusively breastfeeding).

Can we have a discussion about this? It's something I'm coming to worry about a great deal. I do not want them to inherit my attitude of resignation about my periods - and mine aren't even painful! Just annoying!

I have a sense that women who grow up knowing they are different to men, but can celebrate that and not feel inferior because of it, are less likely to be oppressed in any situations - relationships, work, friendships.

Is no one else concerned about doing and saying the right things to enable their daughters to live rich, self-confident lives?

I'm really surprised - I thought my post might stimulate a really interesting discussion!

I too am interested (I have two dd's) but as mine are still quite little (5 and 3) i dont have much to add. i am keen to avoid eating disorders as they have appeared in the family before (not in me)....

Thanks SGM. What about periods, though? Both DH and I would say we were feminists, and our marriage is based on an equal partnership where we discuss the division of labour. I am a SAHM (but work part time when I can), but that's solely through choice, and we both ensure the children know that.

But I really also want them to grow up loving themselves and being proud of their womanhood, not wishing they didn't have to deal with it.

LackingInspiration, I think you just picked a quiet point, rather than people being uninterested.

I don't know of any literature to recommend. Hopefully someone will come along soon. I think you can do a lot here though just by talking. If you hate your periods, maybe you can't lead by example, but if you have some self-awareness about you, you can use your periods to set up good feelings in your DDs. I was brought up rather neutrally about periods. They weren't something to celebrate, but neither were they seen as a terrible thing. As an adult I simply accept that I need sanitary protection once a month and other than that I spend no time thinking about them whatsoever. If you're unable to give that impression yourself, simply tell your DDs that and give them an age-appropriate version of what you've posted here. That's enough to get them thinking.

Inspiration, I think it will stimulate discussion. I have been thinking about your post but hadn't responded yet as I am the mum of a ds - so in a sense have the exact same responsibility from a different angle.

As far as I can tell, ds has no concept of any difference between male and female roles. I am a WOHM, dh is a SAHD but also chronically ill, so if ds were going to characterise role models at this stage it would not be along 'normal' gender lines shall we say, but more based on illness.

Your comment about period pains sent me scurrying after some frandkly excellent books I had forgotten, if you like sci-fi at all - Native Tongue by Suzette Haden Elgin.

In more general terms I think about my mother's influence on me. She was (and is) a staunch feminist who divorced in 1975, when it was virtually unheard of, and then made the decision to stay at home to look after us, she has never returned to the traditional work marketplace. She is the woman I respect most of all in my life, she has been through some total crap but she has always dealt incomparably; when my dstep-dad was ill with cancer the year before last, I went down and she said "oh god I need you to do x, y and z with the computer as I am so useless" - I was like, why would you think that is useless? People can do different things - my mum is an unbelievable knitter, for example - every skill is valuable. My mum spent her career and voluntary life nursing people with terminal cancer. I could never do that in a million years.

I think in terms of concern about what to say, what we do is far more important. Live lives where we show what we can do, all that we can do. Absolutely that is be the best SAHM as be the Prime Minister or the CEO of Marks and Spencer.

And - sorry, I've got into my stride now - show how different roles are right and responsible. Equally as valid for my dh to be a SAHD as for me to do what I do.

I've lived in Mexico, where in those days (a while ago) a woman couldn't talk to her male friends if another woman was present. Or accept the offer of a drink off a man. I could barely leave the house on my own [any Mexican ladies reading should bear in mind these were advisory restrictions for non-Mexican women]. I work in a male-oriented workplace where I actually have a genuine disadvantage not related to being female, but you can imagine how many men interpret it that way - it's most of them, until I've finished dealing with them.

It seems, and I understand why, that the period issue is quite a big thing for you. My periods are torturous, as in fact were my mother's. It did seem a bit taboo and nothing we mentioned in front of my brothers. I don't think that made it worse, but the second in the trilogy I mentioned advances the theory that the women cope much better with their periods where they are seen as a celebration. (I'm all for people and coming pouring champagne down my throat if they want!).

Also - and I mean this sincerely - look at Tinker Bell (if you haven't already). My ds is a big fan, she's basically a fairy engineer. I don't remember any role models like that in the 70s!

I have two daughters,like the above poster mine are 3 and 5.I have told them about periods,and hopefully they have had a positive message.I really like having periods,honestly! I don't know if its because I started pretty late and so was really glad when they did come,but I've always been happy about them,and now I am 46 and I can see I may not have all that many more I feel really sad.I think the body image thing is very hard though,as although I tell my dds how lovely they are naked,I don't feel as though I am lovely naked at all,and small children are very perceptive.
As to the future,I want to plan something to celebrate the start of menses,but I am not sure how!

Optimist - I was brought up with rather a neutral attitude to periods too. It was never referred to negatively. These are my own perceptions of it. I think I just kind of feel that the more I can give my daughters a positive view of them, the better chance they have of not hating them when the time comes. I was desperate for mine to start when I was younger - and they started when I was 11. I've never had any problems with them at all. I don't get much pain apart from slight cramps in my lower back. I don't remember feeling negative about them either, as a young woman.

When I was without periods for such a long time thanks to pregnancies and breastfeeding, I really looked forward to them starting again, and seeing a pattern returning. I'm now 30 and have had my periods back for about a year. I don't get much pain, but I hate having to bother with them. I get two very, very heavy days. I'm not happy with my sanpro - tried mooncup and failed, hate how uncomfortable pads are - reusable and disposable - and I hate throwing tampons away. I'm going to try sea sponge tampons and see how I get on with them - I'm kind of even looking forward to my next period now.

So I am trying to feel positive about them. I'm just dreading my daughters picking up my negative feelings when it's a bad period. I envy the women you read about who really celebrate menstruation.

Tribpot - What do you mean by 'look at Tinker Bell'? Your posts were helpful. I do try and stress the importance I place on the career I've chosen for the foreseeable future - educating and caring for my children. And I genuinely feel very strongly that it's a job worth doing - DH would do it at a shot if it were practical for us to swap roles. I hope my children pick up on that, at least!

hellymelly - re. celebrating their menarche. I was so upset to find I'd missed a message from a friend of mine who was organising a mother-daughter workshop with an experienced woman who teaches about being in tune with your body. She's hoping to plan another one, and I so hope she does it soon so I can go with DD1.

Inspiration, Tinker Bell. She has a new film out this weekend also. ds loves the first two films (I actually don't know why but doubt it is the positive role models indicated by Fairy Mary, Gary et al!)

I've also been through the Mooncup trial and failed, it is difficult but I have to basically sleep on a navy towel for days per month because mine are so heavy. Not disparaging yours but just saying this is part of life's rich tapestry. It's rubbish, [meh]. I suppose compared to the witnessing of pain-suffering ds has to see from dh, day in day out, it's not really an issue!

Do read Native Tongue, totally recommended.

Also I would like to add my grandmother's take. So bear in mind this is a woman who has watched a lifeboat crew and said "how is it possible the captain is a woman?" and I go "but Nana I lead a team of 10 and they were all male" - she can't deal with that.

My favourite thing is that she goes "your life is so difficult". And I go, "what do you mean? Compared to being the mother of two small children in the years immediately after the war? With a husband [my beloved grandad] who only had seasonal work and did nothing in the house in between? With no electricity, no fridge, no washing machine? With rationing and being, like 23?" She can't see it, she genuinely can't see it. The fact I merely have to go out to work seems to her like the worst thing possible.

Our generation will never speak to theirs, but the line continues, we know where we came from and we know where they did.

'I am a SAHM (but work part time when I can'

The position of Mother is work - you have four children so you are working, hard.

It is a constant bugbear of mine that the terms 'paid work' and 'unpaid work' have gone out of fashion. I've always told my kids that being a Mother is the hardest job I have ever had, and also the best :)

I think the only advice I have is that children learn from example. If they see you always emphasise equality and fairness - that you and their father bring them up with equality and fairness then that is the best you can do.

Bring them up with the 'radical' notion that toys are for children - they do not belong to either girls or boys there is no such thing as a 'girl's toy' or a 'boy's toy', ditto books, clothes, colours etc etc. and that it is unfair that society deems it necessary to do such divisions in the pursuit of profit. Children really get into the fair/unfair argument. I often tell kids things like 'girls don't own pink' etc. when they make comments. Always makes them think.

I suppose it is just open communication, offering everything and countering sexist shit.

earwicga - yes, I totally agree, and it drives me mad too. I can't even believe I wrote it myself! I usually do specify that it's paid work - my mum's constantly telling me I have three full time jobs. Educating the children (we HE), caring for the children, and looking after the home. Of course DH joins in when he's around, but he works out of the house full time himself.

tribpot - thanks, I'll look that book up.

I think about this a lot too. I really want to be a postive role model to my DD just like my (strong, feminist, clever) mum is to me.

She has spent enough time coming to the toilet with me that she knows all about periods so I'm not worried about that one.

I do worry about my hypocrisy and the mixed messages I might give her though. I consider myself to be a feminist yet I wear make up and shave my legs etc. DD sometimes asks me about make up and I find it really hard to explain why I wear it but why she doesn't need to and shouldn't ever feel the need to.

I've had terribly low self esteem and body image ever since I hit puberty really and I would hate to pass that on to my beautiful DD.

I'm a bit confused as to why you want periods to be a part of being a woman that warrants celebration?

Surely they are just a bodily function, like pooing or weeing, being sick etc. It's the body's way of getting rid of waste products. Not really something to be either resented or celebrated IMO.

There are a lot of wonderful things I celebrate about being a woman, and being a human. Losing the lining of my womb and a bit of blood every month isn't one of them.

I know what you mean CuppaTea and I certainly don't relish getting my period. However, I think I know where the OP is coming from.

Until relatively recently in our society (and to this day in many other societies and to some extent in our society), menstruation is/was stigmatised and used as a way of keeping women in their place. In lots of cultures women aren't allowed to participate in various aspects of public life while menstruating.

I read the Women's Room by Marilyn French recently and I was really struck by a scene where one character is going for an interview or an exam in academia and she's plagued by nightmares that she's leaving a trail of blood and used sanitary towels on the floor. She feels unable to compete in a man's world and that she is somehow dirty and unworthy as a woman.

Sorry, i'm not explaining myself very well but I'm just saying I can see why it's important for our daughters to grow up not feeling ashamed or stigmatised.

I don't agree CuppaTea,
I like getting my periods (although am breastfeeding so I haven't had one for about 2 years)

I remember how excited I was when my period came and how bonding it was with my female friends. In Japan, where I live, a girl starting her period is marked with celebratory food.

It really is symbolically special, I believe. Every time I got mine I used to feel so proud that it meant I had the potential to bear a child!

Remember, periods really have been stigmatized in many cultures, including our own. In some cultures women were forced to stay in huts at the edge of the village when they were on, in English it's called "the curse".

WHen my DD gets her period, I'm going to pay for her to do something special as a celebration.

Because, cuppatea, for widespread attitudes to change, things have to go wildly the other way before they can return to some sort of happy medium. We live in a culture where periods are hidden; we see blue water FFS in adverts for sanpro; we don't talk about periods. It all just builds up to a general feeling of crapness about periods - something to hide, something to be ashamed of, something to be annoyed by. IMO, if my daughters start out their menstruating life thinking periods are fantastic things, then the general grinding down from societal attitudes to them might just mean that they end up just 'not minding' their periods...rather than starting out not minding them and ending up hating them IYSWIM.

I'd much rather be someone who doesn't feel she has to hide her periods in the same way she doesn't feel she has to hide her breasts! They are part of me as a woman. Pooing and peeing are completely different to periods IMO. Menstruating is about fertility and, dare I say it, power! Women have the power to make life! It is fantastic and wonderful, and celebrating it is going to be, IMO, an important part of being proud of your womanhood.

For example, I find I am able to love my stretchmarks, because I just feel that huge feeling of 'wow! I made life! Four times! when I see them. DH does too . I want to not get my period and go 'oh shit! Here we go again! Worrying about leaking blood; having to go to the loo all the time; getting anaemic and deydrated! Mustn't mention it to anyone because I'm embarrassed by it'. I want to go 'yay! My period! What a wonderful symbol that my body is still capable of doing the most incredible thing in the world! I am a woman and I'm hugely proud of it!'.

LackingInspiration there is a short section on "menstruation" in Reclaiming the F word, which I am reading at the moment.

"One of the points is that at the moment, many girls are educated about one of the most important changes of their young lives, menstration, by multimational sanitary corporations. Girls remain ignorant about alternative, environmentally friendly menstrual products."

If you start "celebrating" your periods more then your acceptance of this part of your being a woman will be automatically transferred to your DDs.

Can you explain a bit more about what went wrong with the mooncup?

Truely, it is only since using a mooncup that I've made peace with periods. Having the blood in the cup just seems to much cleaner and it feels so different not having all the moisture sucked out by tampons.

There are some links in this green parent article which might be useful and discussion here about how to celebrate menarche.

I've seen a few mentions around the internet of New Moon and online feminist magazine for girls.

Thank you tabouleh.

The mooncup! Well, where do I start!? I was so desperate for it to work, and tried it for several months. The only way I could get it not to leak was if I had it in such a position that I could feel it, which felt like it was constantly falling out. It was such a worry, that it didn't do what I'd hoped it would - make periods more pleasant! The first few months I really looked forward to my periods, to be using it again each time, but then the stress was too much and I just gave up.

I've got sponges to try this month and I am looking forward to it - today or tomorrow it starts! I liked the bleeding side of using washable pads (in the way you describe using the mooncup), but they just weren't comfortable, especially at night.