Racism veiled as liberation

[earwicga]

IMO, this is a brilliant article today by Madeline Bunting - an excerpt:

"The veil debate is making it entirely legitimate to pillory, mock and ridicule a tiny number of women on the basis of what they wear. French politicians described the full veil as a "walking coffin"; on comment threads online there is contempt and sneers for the full veil and those who wear it ? "hiding under a blanket", "going round with a paper bag over your head". In France it is estimated there are only 2,000 women who cover their faces with the burqa or the niqab out of a Muslim population of five million. The response is out of all proportion.

Let's be clear: the niqab and burqa are extreme interpretations of the Islamic requirement for modest dress; few Islamic scholars advocate their use, and many ? including Tariq Ramadan ? have urged women not to use them. They are as alien to many Muslim cultures as they are to the west. And yes, there are instances of patriarchy where some women might be encouraged or even forced to wear a full veil by their husbands or fathers. But generalisations don't fit. Increasingly, young women are choosing to wear the full veil, seeing it as a powerful statement of identity.

Invoking the full weight of the state to police dress codes in public is an extraordinary extension of state powers over an aspect of citizen behaviour which is largely regarded as your own business. Provided you are wearing some clothing, western public space is a free-for-all, and across every capital in Europe that is strikingly self-evident"
www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/jul/14/forced-into-freedom-france

One example of a young French woman's reaction to this can be found here: bit.ly/aBVa4x

What do MumsNetters think? Seems to me that if we condemn those who dictate as to women's clothing in Sudan for example (see Lubna Hussein) then we must equally condemn those who dictate as to women's clothing in Europe.

Yes, it's very tedious, as despite being an Evil Muslim (Like Evil Plankton but in a hijab), I don't swish about going "Me Muslimaaaaahhh, you Infidelllll". Live and let live. I can understand why people are atheists, I've just chosen not to be one.

Learning about differing views can be interesting, but such conversations have to be respectful. Cue someone saying "Why should I respect your fairy stories".

Math - I guess I'm disputing the Eurocentricty of such conversations, as the vast majority or world religions evolved outside of Europe, so I see such a viewpoint as limiting.

Goth, this is Europe.

Would you extend the same respect to a Scientologist?

I disagree with the burqa on gender grounds, not specifically religious grounds. If the men wore the burqa too then I'd say let them get on with it. But I can't respect it when only the women are supposed to cover their face. That is really quite an offensive notion to me,

Cote....that was, indeed, a very silly post. I would love to compare your understanding at 13 with an adult studying at a Russell Group University. I won't qualify my knowledge because it's none of your business where I've lived or the people I know.

What about the 2000 girls who are sent for FGM from the UK? What would you say to their parents who believe it's God's wish?

Apparently 95% of Somali girls have this done. We've ahd a law against it for some time, but no such law in the US, Australia or Canada (from what I can gather)....

I don't think it's just an 'Islamic' problem, either. It pre dates Christ.

Scientology is a cult, Islam is not. Nice try Posie. For further info, look up the Cult Informantion Network.

FGM is actually forbidden in Islam. Many, many Muslims have spoken out against it and actively work to eradicate it.

You could actually find this out yourself, but you seem more interested in baiting Muslims on Mumsnet, which is pretty horrid considering how polite and patient Riven has been to you.

It was used to combat lesbianism too.good article

If Scientology were to survive 1000 years and had many more followers it would be a religion, albeit distant from religion today, any religion, and built upon a completely different set of values. I'm sure there were difficulties at the beginnings of all religions where they tried to impose themselves on other cultures and moral codes. I'm just seeking the answer to the question, which belief system is worthy of respect?

I also am aware that FGM is not a Muslim issue, but it is part of a belief system.

(BTW I am not arguing that Scientology is not a cult and therefore the difficulty of accepting it as a religion are the same as the trials and tribulations of the early Christians/Muslims had to endure to spread what they believe was 'The Truth'.)

But FGM is not part of the Muslim belief system. That needs to be made v clear.

Absolutely Islamic leaders throughout the globe speak in very loud voices about the issue and frequently try to educate all Muslims (all people) that FGM is not an Islamic requirement and it is harmful and not to be practised. Unfortunately in Somalia one of the main reasons, second to cultural tradition, is that it is an Islamic requirement. So again a case of religion used to serve the need/wants of Man. Neatly back to the burqa.

(Somalian people said, still not suggested by Islam)

My Muslim friends are, to me, just friends not defined by their religion. They are, as I have said, from Islamic countries and whilst they still believe in Allah they don't feel the need to pray five times a day or wear head scarves. So my bee doesn't buzz around them, they see the submissions that Islam expects of it's followers to be as unacceptable as I do. I'm not anti-Muslims, I am anti Islam as it is practised today. I am able, as a non believer, to separate the two.

I fundamentally disagree. We are lucky to live in England where if you think God doesn't exist and religions are made up you can say so. It's a perfectly objective point to make that it might be a fairy story and those robust in their beliefs can handle criticism.

It's the weak bad religions who get themselves all het up by deniars. The stronger better religions can cope with it but the muslims (some of them) see to get their knickers in a constant twist over third party comment about them. They need to grow a thicker skin or move to the other countries (mostly muslim) where criticism of religions is not allowed because there is no tolerance there. UK aetheists don't mind the religious telling them them are totally wrong.