Racism veiled as liberation

[earwicga]

IMO, this is a brilliant article today by Madeline Bunting - an excerpt:

"The veil debate is making it entirely legitimate to pillory, mock and ridicule a tiny number of women on the basis of what they wear. French politicians described the full veil as a "walking coffin"; on comment threads online there is contempt and sneers for the full veil and those who wear it ? "hiding under a blanket", "going round with a paper bag over your head". In France it is estimated there are only 2,000 women who cover their faces with the burqa or the niqab out of a Muslim population of five million. The response is out of all proportion.

Let's be clear: the niqab and burqa are extreme interpretations of the Islamic requirement for modest dress; few Islamic scholars advocate their use, and many ? including Tariq Ramadan ? have urged women not to use them. They are as alien to many Muslim cultures as they are to the west. And yes, there are instances of patriarchy where some women might be encouraged or even forced to wear a full veil by their husbands or fathers. But generalisations don't fit. Increasingly, young women are choosing to wear the full veil, seeing it as a powerful statement of identity.

Invoking the full weight of the state to police dress codes in public is an extraordinary extension of state powers over an aspect of citizen behaviour which is largely regarded as your own business. Provided you are wearing some clothing, western public space is a free-for-all, and across every capital in Europe that is strikingly self-evident"
www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/jul/14/forced-into-freedom-france

One example of a young French woman's reaction to this can be found here: bit.ly/aBVa4x

What do MumsNetters think? Seems to me that if we condemn those who dictate as to women's clothing in Sudan for example (see Lubna Hussein) then we must equally condemn those who dictate as to women's clothing in Europe.

Xenia, I fear your optimism is unfounded, and I applaud the French for this pushing back they are doing. They promoters of the full veil are very serious about their vision of the future, and have a lot of money to spend financing that vision (Wahhabi-dominated Saudi Arabia is behind the promotion of the full veil). I'm glad the French didn't try to hide behind the security excuse.

The Wahhabi sect is not interested in integration except under the Wahhabi banner, as has happened in Saudi Arabia under the ibn Saud dynasty from its first appearance up to the present. Here's an outline of Wahhabi and Saudi history -- the Wahhabis are just as intolerant of other streams of Muslim thought as they are of western ('infidel') philosophies and religions. They are behind the sudden 'popularity' of the full veil. Veiling is not a strange coincidence or a movement of mass piety that sprang from nowhere.

Most British Muslims don't cover up and it's quite hard to isolate daughters from influences once you move to another country so I'm happy British girls will be fine.

It's like Caxton's printing press. You can't hold back progress or information so I'm sure all will be well but you're right it's a struggle. I know someone who refused to finalise a deal she'd run in Saudi because she'd have had to be covered and pretend she wasn't instrumental in it. Eveyone flew to Geneva instead. She made her point. More people need to make their point too and pussyfoot around being too held back about it.

Wow, good for her Xenia, more people do need to do things like that.

Saudi simply ought to be boycotted. But of course it won't be becuase of the oil.

Pakistan? Recently banned both FB and YouTube.

(This is not likely to ever happen in that cruel dictatorship we know as France.)

In fact, vive la difference.

It's a beacon of emancipation compared to a lot of other parts of the world.

Unfortunately with freedom of choice, a lot of people make bad choices. I would still prefer to have that freedom.

What math said. A woman is regarded as equal to a man in this country and has equal rights in law. That is sadly not the case in many other countries. Of course no Western democracy is perfect but they are much better places for women to live than many others I can think of.

I object to anyone who thinks they have the right to dictate what women wear. So I believe women must be free to veil, or to wear bikini tops and micro-minis. Whatever they want. Do wonder about the obvious double standard here, though, have never seen a Muslim man covering his face (not in this country, have seen pictures of them doing it in the desert which is clearly practical).

What's the downside of being equal under the law, Riven? Seriously, what is the problem with equality under the law for women? The alternative is -- well, it's Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan or northern Nigeria or some other benighted corner of the world where rape goes unpunished unless you're the victim, where you can be stoned to death for adultery, the definition of which is sometimes being raped if you're married, imprisoned for the crime of wearing trousers... You keep on looking at the glass half empty, as if the problems of women in the west were far more serious than the problems of women and girls in Koran-dominated countries. Do schoolgirls get acid thrown in their faces for having the temerity to seek an education in your neck of the woods? Has your DD's school ever been burned to the ground by fanatics terrified of the uppity women and girls inside, and consumed with godly zeal? It is ridiculous to keep on pointing out that the west is no paradise for women, when the alternative falls so far short of what we take for granted.

No western democracy is perfect, as Edam says, and nobody is saying women haven't had to claw what rights and freedom we enjoy from the powers that used to be able to dictate to us how we lived, but fact is we are far, far better off in terms of rights and in terms of legal safeguards for our rights than women in countries where the Koran is the law. I've said it before on threads about the full veil, but I feel that wearing it in the west is, at worst, a serious effort to mock the freedom that the west offers.

Living in a society where viewing someone's face is normal and not seeing it is deemed unfriendly, at best. Masking your face with cultural Muslim dress is both political and offensive. She may as well wear a placard saying "I hate the West". Religion in general is dreadful for women, but Islam does seem to hold the monopoly for the most widespread and less liberal interpretation.

I'm not for a ban, I was before but think it's unworkable and far too dangerous as it would, I imagine, only make some Muslims and the West further apart. Funny about your observation about Jews, both seem to bypass The New Testament, for kindness and a loving and forgiving God...both like a bit of Hell and damnation over love thy fellow man. Any religion that expects so much ritual and submission clips the wings of women and could not be a wish of any benevolent God.

Posie, you aren't suggesting that through history Christianity has been tolerant and kind to women are you?

Wasting....no I'm talking about a civilised and evolved society and how there's no place for this sort of practice that makes women invisible. Besides it's not unheard of that Muslim women are submissive to men, almost as a badge of pride and closeness to their maker. I do struggle, generally, with the notion that anyone would read texts that were written 1000 or so years ago and a)believe them and b)think they are at all relevant, today.

I wonder if, in 1000 years, people will pick up a copy of some crap written by Ron Hubbard and think it's full of truth?

Why did you mention the New Testament?

Actually it's a woman's issue and so women may debate it, and sometimes outsiders do know best. Whilst it would be preferable for more enlightened views came from within the religion, and had louder voices than fundamentalists, without them being forthcoming every woman, in the UK, has a right to comment on how women, in the UK, live. Or perhaps we should have let the Catholics deal with their Priests?