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Agonising hysteroscopy

132 replies

CoralPanda · 04/05/2024 01:28

Hi I had a hysteroscopy recently for post menopausal bleeding. They told me it would be a bit uncomfortable and pinch a bit. They just said to take a paracetamol before I went in.

So I went in thinking it would be like a smear, bit uncomfortable and invasive but no big deal. Couldn’t have been more wrong! The second they started trying to shove past my cervix it was like an agony I’ve never felt in my life. The nurse just kept saying oh don’t worry that’s the worst bit over you’re doing so well. I thought it was going to pass out from the pain then it got worse! They took a biopsy with absolutely no pain relief and I went grey so they stopped because they thought I was going to pass out.

Has anyone else had this barbaric procedure done?? I want to make a complaint but my husband says I’m being over the top and it’s a legitimate medical procedure

OP posts:
WearyAuldWumman · 06/05/2024 09:57

CoralPanda · 04/05/2024 01:28

Hi I had a hysteroscopy recently for post menopausal bleeding. They told me it would be a bit uncomfortable and pinch a bit. They just said to take a paracetamol before I went in.

So I went in thinking it would be like a smear, bit uncomfortable and invasive but no big deal. Couldn’t have been more wrong! The second they started trying to shove past my cervix it was like an agony I’ve never felt in my life. The nurse just kept saying oh don’t worry that’s the worst bit over you’re doing so well. I thought it was going to pass out from the pain then it got worse! They took a biopsy with absolutely no pain relief and I went grey so they stopped because they thought I was going to pass out.

Has anyone else had this barbaric procedure done?? I want to make a complaint but my husband says I’m being over the top and it’s a legitimate medical procedure

Not a hysteroscopy, but a consultant removed vaginal polyps without anaesthesia or pain relief. Agony.

He finally stopped: "I can't get the one on the cervix."

The nurse was sympathetic. Told me afterwards that she and her female colleagues don't think it's right. Our NHS trust does all hysteroscopies under GA, but that's only come in recently.

There was blood on the couch/table, blood all over my thighs, a pool of blood on the floor.

Was 62 at the time. Never had children.

In the end, I got a GA for the removal of another 3 vaginal polyps and 2 in the uterus.

I don't say this likely - I had PTSD. Nearly had an accident driving home. Went to bed. Hallucinated that my late husband was looking in on home.

If you go onto Twitter and do a search, there's an account set up to highlight how awful it is that hysteroscopies are conducted without GA.

WearyAuldWumman · 06/05/2024 09:59

PS

Tell your husband to let a doctor stick a scalpel up his penis without pain relief and see how he likes it.

Suggest that he might want to have a look at Hysteroscopy Action@HysteroscopyA on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/HysteroscopyA

WearyAuldWumman · 06/05/2024 10:00

ooooohnoooooo · 04/05/2024 02:00

Hey. Yes. 2 recently. One as you describe and one under general anaesthetic.

Let's just say if they were going to prod instruments into men's gonads they'd not even think about doing it with no painkillers or sedation at least.

Barbarically is the word.

The consultant who did my first said that it's only a recent thing that they do them without GA. I'm expecting that it's cost cutting positioned as 'giving women the choice of something less disruptive'. Or some other bullshit.

Some arsehole of a consultant has told doctors that the woman's pain is a good indication of whether they're in the right place, apparently. Can't remember the detail, but it was put up on the Hysteroscopy Action account on Twitter.

fourelementary · 06/05/2024 10:01

CherryogDog · 04/05/2024 08:40

PS tell your husband that I worked in urology for a while, and not once did a man have a camera pushed into his penis without a GA.
Suggest to him that he asks to have it with just a couple of paracetamol if he ever needs such a legitimate medical procedure.

Ummmm flexible cystoscopy is done every day in urology departments to men (camera up the penis) and women with no GA or pain relief other than gel. Similarly men have prostate biopsies done without GA.

I am in no way belittling the OPs experience and yes these procedures can and should be done when required with GA, but let’s not jump on the “no man would have to” shit when that is categorically not true.

GAs pose a huge risk for many people and an extortionate cost to the NHS and if some procedures can be carried out awake and non-sedated then that means more people can be treated for less money and across a wider range of patients (prior medical conditions and high BMI etc can mean GA is less safe). So a knee-jerk ban on any procedure which could be distressing being done without GA would do a disservice to many.

AlisonDonut · 06/05/2024 10:23

fourelementary · 06/05/2024 10:01

Ummmm flexible cystoscopy is done every day in urology departments to men (camera up the penis) and women with no GA or pain relief other than gel. Similarly men have prostate biopsies done without GA.

I am in no way belittling the OPs experience and yes these procedures can and should be done when required with GA, but let’s not jump on the “no man would have to” shit when that is categorically not true.

GAs pose a huge risk for many people and an extortionate cost to the NHS and if some procedures can be carried out awake and non-sedated then that means more people can be treated for less money and across a wider range of patients (prior medical conditions and high BMI etc can mean GA is less safe). So a knee-jerk ban on any procedure which could be distressing being done without GA would do a disservice to many.

Edited

Do they also have 4 nurses there just to hold the men down?

norasand · 06/05/2024 10:28

fourelementary · 06/05/2024 10:01

Ummmm flexible cystoscopy is done every day in urology departments to men (camera up the penis) and women with no GA or pain relief other than gel. Similarly men have prostate biopsies done without GA.

I am in no way belittling the OPs experience and yes these procedures can and should be done when required with GA, but let’s not jump on the “no man would have to” shit when that is categorically not true.

GAs pose a huge risk for many people and an extortionate cost to the NHS and if some procedures can be carried out awake and non-sedated then that means more people can be treated for less money and across a wider range of patients (prior medical conditions and high BMI etc can mean GA is less safe). So a knee-jerk ban on any procedure which could be distressing being done without GA would do a disservice to many.

Edited

I tend to agree with you there, however I think that women should be fully informed and given a choice regarding pain relief. There has to be a better way than just being told to take a couple of paracetamol. If I ever have to go through this again, pain relief is something I'll want to discuss thoroughly beforehand. I'd rather not have a GA, but I'd want more to hand than the over the counter options I took myself. Advise on paracetamol simply isn't enough for many women without other options on standby

Droolylabradors · 06/05/2024 19:38

Hi OP.

I had one under GA recently and I was in so much pain afterwards I couldn't stand up properly for a week afterwards and needed codeine from the GP.

I have no idea how people cope having them done without a general.

CantBelieveNaive · 06/05/2024 19:39

Aw so sorry you have been through this pain and yes the patriarchy really apparent in medical procedures.

Oh god am booked in for one of these in a fortnight. Oh god am totally scared and glad Ive seen this post in equal measure...

WearyAuldWumman · 06/05/2024 19:49

CantBelieveNaive · 06/05/2024 19:39

Aw so sorry you have been through this pain and yes the patriarchy really apparent in medical procedures.

Oh god am booked in for one of these in a fortnight. Oh god am totally scared and glad Ive seen this post in equal measure...

After I had my procedure, a retired nurse friend told me that I should at least have been offered gas and air. Maybe phone the consultant's secretary and ask about that?

WearyAuldWumman · 06/05/2024 19:52

norasand · 06/05/2024 10:28

I tend to agree with you there, however I think that women should be fully informed and given a choice regarding pain relief. There has to be a better way than just being told to take a couple of paracetamol. If I ever have to go through this again, pain relief is something I'll want to discuss thoroughly beforehand. I'd rather not have a GA, but I'd want more to hand than the over the counter options I took myself. Advise on paracetamol simply isn't enough for many women without other options on standby

Agreed. Some years back, I had to have a tumour removed from a very sensitive area. (Benign, it turned out.)

The other women in the ward were all older than me, had been through it before and demanded GA. I agreed to a local.

Surgeon started to cut. I could feel it. Told him. He injected me again...and began to cut again straight away. I felt it. Told him. This time, the bastard didn't stop. I was in stirrups. Couldn't do a damned thing.

Again, the nurses were sympathetic, but...

Had I been given full information, I would never have agreed to that. Never.

WearyAuldWumman · 06/05/2024 19:54

fourelementary · 06/05/2024 10:01

Ummmm flexible cystoscopy is done every day in urology departments to men (camera up the penis) and women with no GA or pain relief other than gel. Similarly men have prostate biopsies done without GA.

I am in no way belittling the OPs experience and yes these procedures can and should be done when required with GA, but let’s not jump on the “no man would have to” shit when that is categorically not true.

GAs pose a huge risk for many people and an extortionate cost to the NHS and if some procedures can be carried out awake and non-sedated then that means more people can be treated for less money and across a wider range of patients (prior medical conditions and high BMI etc can mean GA is less safe). So a knee-jerk ban on any procedure which could be distressing being done without GA would do a disservice to many.

Edited

By contrast, my uni boyfriend had to have a circumcision at the age of 21. He was given excellent pain relief, he told me - didn't feel a thing.

WearyAuldWumman · 06/05/2024 19:58

coldcallerbaiter · 04/05/2024 22:19

Why can’t they do twilight sedation? Instead of GA, that would be better than paracetamol.
I have a tilted/retroverted womb and was told GA was best.

Edited

My retired nurse friend was astonished I wasn't offered gas and air: she was given gas and air for removal of bowel polyps.

When I had to have a colonoscopy, I was given sedation for that.

WearyAuldWumman · 06/05/2024 20:01

DramaAlpaca · 04/05/2024 03:23

I'm so sorry for what you experienced, OP. That's absoltely awful. They should've stopped the procedure and offered it under GA instead, which is what my gynaecologist said he'd do. He reckoned that after three normal births I'd be fine, and he was right, but if I hadn't had that gynaecological history he'd have done it for me under GA.

For the sake of balance I'm going to say that I had a hysteroscopy for the same reason as you, plus a biopsy and a Mirena coil insertion. I can honestly say that for me it was completely pain free. Two paracetamol beforehand and it was a weird sensation, but no actual pain whatsoever. However, we all have different pain thresholds.

OP, if I were you I'd ask for some kind of debrief at least. You shouldn't have had to go through pain like that.

I normally have a high pain threshold, but the procedure that I had was excruciatingly painful - worse than any fractures I've had, worse than when I had my toes broken and reset. (I had a GA for the toe op: the pain came after the pain block wore off.)

I notice that a few posters have mentioned having a retroverted womb. I'm wondering whether that has a significant impact - I know that it runs in my family.

quizzys · 06/05/2024 20:06

I note that sedation is available with midazolam and fentanyl (conscious sedation and pain relief) for colonoscopies.

But that test applies to both sexes where a probe is pushed up yer bum. Different when the probe is pushed into the vagina and cervix though.

It is absolutely outrageous what women are expected to tolerate. I'd be livid at the presumption that women's pain threshold is higher than men's. Honestly it is unreal.

Midgegreenstreet · 06/05/2024 20:43

OP I'm sorry you had such an awful experience. I turned up at hospital a couple of months ago for a hysteroscopy - all female team (apart from the male med student who looked about 12 and who I said couldn't stay in the room). They offered me gas and air but I took one look at the chair with stirrups and medical instruments, burst into tears and refused to go through with it. They did try and jolly me along and suggested I'd have been through worse giving birth. I pointed out I'd had three very straightforward births with no interventions or pain relief needed and that they weren't going anywhere near me.

They were sympathetic and said I could get it done under GA instead which I agreed to and which took place a few weeks later without any fuss. Having read about your experience and some others on here, I'm really glad I made that choice even though there were some difficult things about having a GA. I really don't think it can be underestimated how traumatic a painful, invasive medical procedure can be.

chimichangaz · 06/05/2024 20:44

I had post menopausal bleeding last year and had an appointment for a hysteroscopy. I'd previously had an internal scan when I had bleeding before which was uncomfortable but bearable. However smear tests have been agony the last three times.

I was told to take paracetamol an hour beforehand. I have never in my life felt so much pain. They gave me gas and air which didn't touch the sides. Although the nurses didn't say anything to me, the feeling I strongly had was that they thought I was a wuss and was making an unnecessary fuss. I felt traumatised by the procedure and still do. I was supposed to have a coil inserted but said I didn't want to as I couldn't bear the pain. At a follow up appointment I asked why I couldn't have GA for that and the consultant said they don't offer it due to the risks.

I feel so angry that so many women are being made to suffer like this. Thank you @DiscontentedWoman for posting the link to the survey- I've completed it.

Oh and OP - your husband is a dick to make that comment instead of supporting you.

Piggywaspushed · 06/05/2024 21:57

Yes, OP, complain. I am definitley going full GA should I ever need one, having already narrowly avoided one.

As a side note, my DH screamed the place down when he had a prostate biopsy. Again, men should have the full information about the choice of GA for that, too. The 'some discomfort' line is trotted out to them ,too. Also, totally counterproductive as he is now too terrified to ever have another one.

catsmother · 06/05/2024 22:47

I too have had a hysteroscopy and removal of endometrial polyps, due to post menopausal bleeding on a 2WW referral. The difference was that my hospital included the option to ask for GA in the information leaflet I'd been given at the pre op appointment.

Years before I had suffered the most excruciating pain, and sense of violation, when, at 40 weeks pregnant, and without any prior discussion let alone consent, an arrogant consultant told me he wanted to 'take a look to see how I was progressing ' but then proceeded to perform an excruciating sweep. I wondered why the accompanying nurse put her arm round my shoulders before this 'look' commenced. I was so shocked afterwards I threw up, and literally shook for several hours - I have never felt such sickening pain, including labour pains. Nor did it serve any purpose at all as my baby was born 12 days later anyway.

Due to that experience I have since struggled with all sorts of intimate examinations and procedures and I knew I'd have a full blown panic attack if the hysteroscopy was even slightly painful, and especially so if it was being performed by a male doctor.

Thankfully having explained all of the above to a very sympathetic nurse, having a GA was never an issue and everyone I encountered prior to being knocked out was very respectful. I realise from reading other women's experiences that I was fortunate to encounter a decent and understanding team right from the outset - and although the option for GA was somewhat hidden away, at least it was there in black and white for anyone to request.

It is appalling and sadistic that women's pain is so often minimised and attributed to 'hysteria' ... the origins of that word itself, i.e. having a disproportionately negative and 'out of control' reaction to something does of course relate back to us having wombs; as if possession of that organ is all it takes to be ridiculously fussy. Our literal, physical feelings and reactions are all too often brushed aside and blamed on 'hysteria' ..... 'calm down dear' springs to mind. While society has viewed our experience for centuries in that way, regardless of which part of us is hurting, I truly believe that particular contempt is ingrained and reserved for any kind of gynaecological complaint. It's really hard to articulate properly but I do wonder if 'women's troubles' are somehow seen as less important, and us, as less deserving of sympathetic and kind treatment than men suffering specifically male issues? And why is that? Is it a semi conscious choice within the current health service with limited resources? Or is it deeper than that? Why is hysteroscopy too often minimised as a minor discomfort when it must be clear to all the participating HCPs that women are in agony? Is there an additional and particular correlation between the ages of the majority of women undergoing this, and the attitude they encounter? As in, being menopausal .... the whole 'dried up old hag' thing, so those women are treated less kindly because we don't matter as much?

jackstini · 06/05/2024 23:12

I'm sitting here in tears as this has brought back what an horrendous procedure this was

So sorry you had to go through this OP, and the rest of you - agree it is barbaric

I also have a retroverted womb, posterior cervix and so never dilated in pregnancy - emcs for dd then elcs for ds

The nurses and consultant were kind but paracetamol made no difference whatsoever, nor did diclofenac or codeine. Blood everywhere, they gave a local anaesthetic partway through which didn't touch the sides. I felt them take the tissue during the biopsy

Shaking so much afterwards I couldn't sit/stand and nurse had to help me dress. Cried all the way home, DH was driving, and had 2 massive glasses of wine which took the edge off slightly

Didn't get out of bed for 36 hours - DH was great

Worse thing is the reason I had to have it was to check risk of cancer as womb lining was very thick - due to me being prescribed the wrong ducking HRT (2 lots of oestrogen and no progesterone) for 6 months!

Thankfully no cancer but still having issues and in for transvaginal ultrasound again this week

Not in a million years would I have a hysteroscopy done again without a GA

I will fill in the survey for sure - thank you to those who posted

DiscontentedWoman · 07/05/2024 10:01

Please,🙏 contact the Hysteroscopy Action Group with your experiences. They are working really hard to end these awful practices. Thank you

Hysteroscopy Action

Campaign Against Painful Hysteroscopy

https://www.hysteroscopyaction.org.uk/

CherryogDog · 07/05/2024 10:28

fourelementary · 06/05/2024 10:01

Ummmm flexible cystoscopy is done every day in urology departments to men (camera up the penis) and women with no GA or pain relief other than gel. Similarly men have prostate biopsies done without GA.

I am in no way belittling the OPs experience and yes these procedures can and should be done when required with GA, but let’s not jump on the “no man would have to” shit when that is categorically not true.

GAs pose a huge risk for many people and an extortionate cost to the NHS and if some procedures can be carried out awake and non-sedated then that means more people can be treated for less money and across a wider range of patients (prior medical conditions and high BMI etc can mean GA is less safe). So a knee-jerk ban on any procedure which could be distressing being done without GA would do a disservice to many.

Edited

@fourelementary I can only speak from my experience of 6 months in urology done in main theatres, where every procedure was done under GA.
I do not know if this was trust specific or just that times have changed.

I have posted about my experience above but would like to add a little more detail.
I have VA and despite telling the doctor this he attempted a Pipelle biopsy without any LA.
I completely lost my shit and he stopped and rebooked me to have it done with a LA.
I was too traumatised to question why I couldn't have had that in the first place.
So on the morning of my next appointment I took 5mg of valium, paracetamol and meloxicam in preparation.
I explained to the female doctor that I had felt totally unheard when I'd said to the other doctor about my VA.
She then inserted the speculum and when I screamed and asked her to stop she said she'd try the smaller one.
Even that was agonising, I was swearing my head off and the LA did nothing.
Then (I was expecting a 2nd attempt at a Pipelle) I experienced the worst pain of my life, and she was putting the water in ready for the hysteroscopy which I was not expecting and certainly hadn't consented to.
I was screaming and swearing and then started shaking violently.
Eventually the nurse told her to stop.
I was left in the stirrups (I have arthritis and couldn't get my legs down without help) bleeding, and the doctor and nurse went to the desk and chatted about their lunch breaks ffs.
I eventually had it done with a GA.
I complained via PALS, but was actually told I should be greatful to have been seen so quickly, that the doctor thought I'd be OK as I've had two large babies and completely ignored the fact that no informed consent was given.
Compare that to my experience at the same trust with my gastroscopy and colonoscopy.
I had throat spray and the maximum sedation for my gastroscopy.
I've had several colonoscopies with no problem but I've had two major stomach ops which have left me with adhesions.
The moment I cried out in pain the camera was withdrawn and I was booked to have it under GA.
Maybe with IV sedation I could have coped with an outpatient hysteroscopy, but it's not an option at my local trust for gynae procedures.

LadySlipper · 07/05/2024 17:51

I had one last Dec to have polyp removed and a biopsy. It was positively medieval. At no point was GA ever discussed as an option, just given a leaflet saying take paracetamol before hand. I like to think I have a fairly high pain tolerance but it was truly unbearable, but bear it I had to, as there was no way I was ever going back for more.

teaandtoastwithmarmite · 07/05/2024 18:57

I had one. I’d called to say I was on my period and they said that was fine. But it was agonising and I felt utterly violated. Needed three women staff to hold my hand and I could tell the doctor felt awful

gettingolderbutcooler · 07/05/2024 22:49

I just had mine today. Took cocodamol beforehand.
Slight cramp bit otherwise all fine!

Duckinglunacy · 07/05/2024 23:02

I have had one without GA and one with. The one without was totally fine, they used some local on my cervix and I didn’t feel any pain at all. It was a bit weird and odd feeling, but I enjoyed looking at the screen and having a chat about what was going on. I walked home from hospital, about 2 miles. Was totally fine. To be honest, whilst the GA was nice, it was also way more disruptive. I had to have a few days off work and felt groggy for days after.

that said, the reason I was there in the first place was an elusive Mirena coil and I had a removal attempt for that wirh ultrasound which had me climbing the walls. I don’t know what she did, but she triggered some kind of internal spasm that was utterly horrific. And that was without getting through my cervix.

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