What if this hospital consultant is as rude as he was last time? What shall I do?

[Afternoonsnooze]

This is a bit of a ‘What if’ situation but need some advice.

I have had endless gynae issues since my mid 20’s. Now 51. I have experienced very heavy periods to the point of needing iron infusions. I have had 5 hysteroscopies to remove multiple uterine polyps but they kept growing back. I also had a day surgery to remove more stubborn polyps. My uterine lining was also very thick for the majority of this time so in 2022 I opted for a uterine ablation. Sadly this has failed resulting in more pain. Additionally, I have always experienced very painful ovulation but told this is normal etc.

For the last 12 years I have had yearly appointments at the same hospital with the same gynaecologist (who is a lovely guy I might add). I have occasionally had the odd appointment with the other gynaecologists in the department and they have all been lovely, except for one. I had a telephone consultation with this gynaecologist back in 2020 during lockdown. I found him to be so very rude. He spoke over me the whole time (a rushed 10 min appointment), didn’t allow me to ask any questions or to speak in general. Of course he could have been having a bad day but I do remember thinking I never wanted to see him again and to date, I haven’t.

However, due to the failed ablation and excessive pain resulting in this procedure I asked my regular gynae for a MRI. Turns out that I have deep endometriosis and diffuse adenomyosis. My gynae has referred me over to the endometriosis team.

Within this department is a well respected endometriosis specialist. I was really hoping to see him, especially as it’s taken so long to discover I have endometriosis, I wanted to speak with someone with lots of expertise. The appointment came through and unfortunately it’s with the gynae I found to be so rude (apparently he is also one of the endo specialists). I have since noticed on a local endometriosis support group that others have found him to be very brusque too.

The appointment is this coming Thursday and tbh I am so apprehensive. I am worn down by my issues (have a couple of other health issues going on as well), totally pissed off that it’s taken so long to be diagnosed in the first place and now on edge because of the thought of having to consult with this guy again. Gynae issues are bad enough to deal with but you need a specialist who is understanding and kind not someone who treats you like an inconvenience (that’s how he made me feel during the 2020 telephone consultation).

Obviously I won’t know how this all goes until the appointment, he may well be fine but what if he is the same as before and I just don’t feel comfortable with him? Do I have the right to refuse an examination by him? Do I have a right to ask to see someone else?

Ideally, I would love for all of this to be dealt with privately as I’ve had enough. I did see the highly recommended consultant in January at our local private hospital. I could just about scrape up the consultant fee but the hospital charge £7500 for a laparoscopy and that figure is sadly out of my budget especially as I’ll probably also need a hysterectomy later due to the adenomyosis, so the NHS it will have to be.

So what should I do if I feel this consultation doesn’t go well? Any advice?

I have had so many dismissive and rude women's health/oncology doctors over the years all of whom were male sadly.

I've found that you have to be your own advocate and I have used the MN phrase "Sorry but did you mean to be so rude" to one of them who did at least looked shamefaced.
I have also asked a consultant "would you be happy if your wife/mother/sister was treated like this?" with regards to treatment/attitude.
Go with a note pad of questions and then note down the answers.
If you're unsure of something then ask the doctor to repeat it in easier terms to understand.
It doesn't go amiss to remind a consultant that it's your life that your discussing and that you need all the information to process what's happening to you.
If you find that your concerns are being minimised or rejected then state that you feel that way.
If you're on your own then ask for a female nurse to sit in and if there's something that you don't understand or can't get across then address the nurse directly for clarification. Often the consultant does want to be outshone by a nurse and will often engage better.
Go with someone you trust if you can who can stand up for you and ask questions or remind you about what you need to know.

If you feel that you have been treated badly/inconsiderately by the consultant then you have the absolute right to ask for a second opinion or to see a different but you may have to wait.
HTH - wishing you the best x

For a start, insist on a chaperone. They'll have a female nurse/HCA around for that. Or take a friend/relative to advocate for you if necessary.

Be assertive and don't put up with any crap from the consultant. Ask all the questions you want, if he doesn't answer, ask again, and again.

Different, but with my OH's cancer, he had an appointment with a consultant to discuss a stem cell transplant. The consultant was absolutely awful - it was like he was reciting a script, wouldn't listen to my OH, didn't ask any questions, just preached at him. OH wasn't well so was just basically nodding. I could see it wasn't going well, so I stepped up and started asking questions, challenging what the consultant was saying, etc., and it was like he turned into a different person, and started listening to me, asking questions, actually discussing the options rather than preaching.

Sometimes they just need someone to stand up to them and make them realise you're not a pushover.

I've also found doctors etc generally to be more pleasant and helpful in person rather than on the phone. When remote, it's easy for them to forget you're a real person and easier to fob you off. When you're in a room with them, you have more "power".

Thank you for your help and advice, I’ve written those all down.

I should have mentioned that I am taking dh along, he tends to sit quietly in these situations as I think medical settings overwhelm him a little but he is good at remembering much of what is said and at least he will be there in physical form for me.

IME I do believe some doctors (especially NHS ones because they are so overwhelmed these days) are so used to seeing endless patients day in day out they forget that we are all individuals with separate concerns and questions.

Fingers crossed it will go well.

I forgot to add that dh is coming with me.

Tbh, the older I get the more I am starting to stand up for myself within medical settings, I’ve spent the last 20 odd years being told my symptoms are all normal for a woman and fobbed off when it was actually endometriosis, that has made me angry which in turn is making me stand up for myself more.

I am keeping everything crossed this consultant is more approachable in a face to face setting than on the phone and I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt as it was also 2020 and obviously not a great time for most of us particularly those in healthcare.

I’m sorry that you’ve had so many years of suffering gynae issues - it’s a horrid path to be on.

My first recommendation would be to record the appointment on your phone as a voice memo. You don’t have to tell the doctor you are doing this, and it’s helpful to be able to be present in the moment and not trying to remember everything that is said. If he behaves rudely there is also a record of this which he can’t dispute.

I had an incredibly rude consultant who was fine as long as he was reeling off his script, but as soon as you asked a question would angrily shout. Having a nurse and even a student present didn’t deter him, the student raised her eyebrows at my DP during one episode!

I was a bit bewildered by being diagnosed with endometriosis (after trying to get help for 16 years) and infertility. With hindsight, I should have refused to see him but it was in covid times and I didn’t want to delay our IVF referral any further.

I believe you have the right to a second opinion if the appointment doesn’t go well. Definitely don’t subject yourself to an examination by him if he’s being rude and making you uncomfortable.

Thank you GodspeedJune, so sorry it’s taken so long for your endo diagnosis too, sadly this seems to be all too common.

I had an incredibly rude consultant who was fine as long as he was reeling off his script, but as soon as you asked a question would angrily shout. Having a nurse and even a student present didn’t deter him, the student raised her eyebrows at my DP during one episode!

This is exactly what the consultant was like with me. Every time I tried to ask a question he would shout ‘No, no let me talk’, he never allowed time for me to ask any questions and abruptly ended the call. I was quite taken aback tbh, too shocked to say anything but I’ll be better equipped this time. I’m not putting up with it anymore. I will definitely record the consultation as I usually write things down but in all honesty when it comes to looking back at my notes they often make no sense lol.

@Afternoonsnooze
Hmm...my DP is much the same as your DH. Too many people are cowed by consultants and doctors and just quietly accept what they're told as 'they' know better than us but we have the internet now and patients are better informed. Until recently DP would sit quietly and say nothing. I'm on my second cancer in two years and have had to stand up for myself this time as I was railroaded last time so I've had to tell him to stand up for me when I'm being browbeaten by the doctors into having treatment that I don't feel is best for ME - and miraculously he has been.
I do always take a notepad with me and note down everything I'm told and when I'm feeling unlistened to I now look at DP and he reiterates what it is that I want. Last time I had cancer I didn't have anyone with me during consultations and I agreed to a lot of stuff that I didn't want because I trusted them. I also found that if there are no witnesses then doctors treat you differently - if DP is with me then I get treated better by male consultants if they can see that DP is as informed as I am. I really doubt that the male oncology doctor that I asked about my hair (hair never regrew after chemo) would have said "what do you need hair for at your age?" had my DP or a nurse had been sat in the room with me.

I would just like to add that I'm a post meno woman in her 50's who has a massive 'fuck-it bucket' and cancer. No one messes with me anymore. When I sit down the consultant and he oversteps I now just look at him with a raised eyebrow ridge (no actual eyebrow as never regrew!) and wait for him to show some respect!

Fucking rude consutants. They think they are demi gods. They wouldn't last five minutes in any other job with that attitude. Just imagine how they speak to female colleagues. It's even more despicable because they are capitalising on your vulnerability. It's nothing to do with them being overwhelmed with work, I've dealt with consultants over the years and the nasty ones (which are a large minority) were obviously born like it.

Go in with a clear idea of what you want from the appointment.

Get a notebook, then write a list of your symptoms and the impact on daily life.

Then make a note of any questions you have.

And finally make a note of what you need to get from this appointment.

Go into the room with the notebook ready. It shows you mean business and I find I’m more likely to have a useful conversation if I go in prepared like this.

Thank you everyone.

I will definitely take a notepad with me but I may also ask if I can record the consultation then I can make note easier back home.

@Afternoonsnooze
Don't ask if you can record the consultation - just do it. If he asks what you're doing just TELL him that you're recording it to listen back later as anxiety makes you forgetful. He can't object and if he does then smile sweetly and ask HIM what he thinks that you're going to do with it seeing as it's of interest only to you. If he really objects then tell him that in that case you will have to write down the conversation in full in your notepad and then do it if he continues to be ridiculous. A doctor with nothing to hide will not object - I've done it before and it was invaluable for remembering what was said.

Can I legally record the conversation without informing him first?

@Afternoonsnooze
This is off the BMA website:

Information disclosed during a consultation is confidential to the patient, and a covert recording is not therefore a breach of confidentiality.
Similarly, where a recording is made entirely for personal reasons it is unlikely to engage the Data Protection Act.
Doctors nonetheless have a reasonable expectation of privacy during a consultation. Patients should therefore seek a doctor’s agreement to make a recording.
Where a patient makes a recording without permission, doctors have no legal redress. Patients should seek the agreement of the doctor. In addition to legal questions, it is a matter of ordinary courtesy and respect and is more likely to lead to a positive and trusting relationship.

@Afternoonsnooze
I read the above as you should seek permission or just state that you're recording the consult in order to smooth the patient/doctor relationship BUT it is not against the law to make a recording as long as you are not going to publish it or put it on SM etc AND identify the person involved.
I have previously just put my phone on the desk and stated that anxiety makes me forget things and that it's just for me to listen later etc. I have never had an objection. I have also just put my phone on the desk and said nothing and just recorded the appointment and I haven't ever been challenged.
If I did receive an objection then I would ask state the BMA guidance, ask for a nurse to be present, get my notepad out, wait for the nurse to appear, switch the phone off and then write down the doctor's replies word for word (with spellings for difficult words) but unless the doctor is an utter t**t then it will never get that far.
What you need to remind yourself of is that this is your life, your health and that it is unrealistic for a doctor to expect you to remember everything that's said in one 10/15/20 minute appointment.

I hate myself for offering this advice... it came via a doctor cousin of mine but here goes:

Dress smartly, jacket, heels, make up. Same for DH, suit, tie, the works. Look business like.

Shake his hand, look him in the eye.

Act like his equal.

Male docs patronise women because they think they're superior beings.

If DH is a bit passive is there anyone else you can take who will speak up for you?

My DH isn't particularly helpful with medical things so I took my sister to an appointment recently.

Conveniently she worked for the NHS for 40 years and knows how to handle consultants but I appreciate not every family has one like her.

@greatbigbag
Yes, there is something to be said for this.
I know that since I lost my hair, eyelashes & eyebrows and couldn't wear make up anymore I have received worse treatment from male doctors. It's like they look through me like I'm invisible. Women doctors see the person more but even some of them don't look at me properly. I do always greet doctors properly and am friendly but.....still practically invisible.

@ginasevern you have no idea how much you’ve just helped me reading your comment here. We had the worst appointment last week with what I can only describe as a cruel Consultant. It was for my Mum and he was dismissive, lacking in any empathy and gave us no hope. The nastiest man I’ve ever met. I’m quite a thick skinned person but it was too much.