Prolapse - a bit of a moan!

[3mmaH]

Hello all,

I hope this is the right place. Just need a some virtual hugs. I’ve got issues with Pelvic floor and it just seems so unfair and not the kind of thing you can admit to!

I’ve been discharged from the physio as it only affects me badly one week a month (around my period-apparently hormones affect it) so they don’t think there is anything they can do where the benefits would outweigh the risks and although everything is much lower than my own normal, it’s still classed as normal range.

I have been following all the exercise advice they gave me and according to the physio now have “quite a strong pelvic floor” so I don’t have stress incontinence but it “gets tired quickly” so I have issues with urgency and that stresses me out - got stuck in traffic this morning and I didn’t have a spare pair of knickers to change when I got to work. Just seems unfair that if it was due to my period or that I’d have split stuff I’d have felt comfortable asking my boss if I could nip to the shop to grab a change of clothes (I usually keep some at work) but I just couldn’t bring myself to admit what had happened.

It also really irritates me that I’m pretty sure if my husband phoned the doctor and said, can you sort something out because I can’t have sex with my wife anymore they would do something. The viagra over the counter advert does my head in!! It’s so sexist as a woman not able to enjoy sex isn’t seen as a problem!

And whilst I’m moaning not being able to use tampons anymore does my head in too! I’m sure when I was a teenager you could buy smaller ones but I can’t seem to find them anywhere, has anyone seen these recently? I’ve bought every kind I can find to see if any can fit but no luck so far!

Thanks.

How old are you op? Quite confused by your post, do you have stress incontinence or a prolapse. A prolapse is quite extreme. If you have the odd accident then I'd invest in some pads, lots of nicer ones available now. Also use the loo frequently, don't hang on! Why can't you use tampons? If due to discomfort use a lubricant, this could apply to sex too.

I’m 31. I’ve got a prolapse after my second child. I have 1 week a month where accidents happen but not stress, it’s anything left in my bladder empties without warning. Although thankfully it’s improved over the last 6 months. I can’t bring myself to buy pads, so I just get changed when it happens.
I can’t use tampons anymore as there isn’t room, my cervix is lower, my bladder is lower and although the physio didn’t give it a name I think I have a retrocele too which seems to get in the way of trying to use tampons. She recommended I use pads instead and I find them so uncomfortable. I’m saving up for period pants fingers crossed they are more comfortable!

I'd rather use pads than wet my clothes.
If you have a prolapse and a retrocele what is being done about them?

If you’re only leaking leftovers rather than a full bladder try modibodi period pants (which is what I use instead of tampons for periods these days because my prolapse doesn’t get on with them either) - they are comfy and absorbent and don’t leak, less plastic to landfill than pads and come in actually wearable colours/styles.

I find if I really need a tampon (eg swimming) my best bet ends up being to insert a chunky one (eg super non-applicator) and wedge it sideways from hip to hip. But I’m pretty sure I’ve got at least one avulsed levator muscle so not only is my vagina short, it’s also really wide - would have hurt to do this pre baby.

The sex thing is shit. How long since you had your baby? It was rubbish for me for ages; took until 18 months post partum to feel good again but is honestly better than ever these days - I had nerve damage as well as prolapse and it just takes forever for them to regenerate so you can feel things properly again.

Huge hug (even if it’s considered bad form on mumsnet) - it’s likely to keep improving.

@Cocolapew - using pads feels like I’ve failed because I haven’t done enough to get my body working again and I am worried that if I do resort to buying pads I might become reliant on them rather than being strict with myself about my pelvic floor exercises.

I was under the NHS physio and consultant but they have said that the risks of surgical treatment outweigh the benefits, they didn’t run through any specifics with me. For the retrocele I have been given dietary advice, told to use my fingers to splint, use relaxation techniques and sit in a certain position and to contact my GP for laxatives or stool softeners if they are ever needed.

They haven’t classed my uterus as prolapsed but my cervix was abnormally high before and is now much lower but apparently at the lower end of normal so I just have to get used to a new position. For the bladder prolapse / issues they have said to continue with my pelvic floor exercises, recommended I contact my GP or sexual health clinic to discuss hormonal treatments and to continue with relaxation as it seems to be very linked to hormones / PMT and my vagus nerve? My GP and sexual health clinic haven’t been able to help even though I have a letter from the physio, a letter from the Health Visitor and a letter from a mental health person from CAMHS all saying that they believe my hormones and extreme PMT are causing the issue. My GP referred me to CAMHS because they thought I had anxiety and depression but I was told by them I definitely don’t, I was struggling with sleep deprivation and then extreme PMT.

@Verbena87
Thanks for the tip on modibodi. I’ve been saving up to get period pants in the hope they might be comfy than period pads. As long as I don’t leave it too long between toilet trips then it isn’t too much. I don’t really get a sensation of a full bladder any more so I just try to remember.

I didn’t even think about swimming, I’ve not had chance to go anywhere near a pool anytime since this happened. It definitely wouldn’t work sideways for me. I asked the physio if I could cut one in half to fit in but she said it wouldn’t be hygienic. My cervix is so low they just hang out!

What is an avulsed levator muscle? Excuse my ignorance!

It’s 2 years since I had my baby. We’ve managed to have sex and there’s a few days a month when it doesn’t hurt and it’s pretty good but not like it was. Everything’s moved around and with two kids that seem to wake up and time their shouts for Mummy and/or Daddy at the most inopportune moments, it’s pretty hard to explore!!! I’ve likened it to getting in a new car and figuring out where the switches are when they are in a slightly different place to the old car!

I’m hoping if the restrictions do go this summer then we can maybe have a couple of child free nights and I can relax a bit more too!

How do you know if you have nerve damage? Within a few days of having my son I realised I couldn’t feel anything, I had no sensation of a full bladder and would suddenly realise the maternity pad was too wet to just be blood. The midwife referred me straight to a physio. When we started having sex again I could feel very little unless it was hurting near my cervix. No one has mentioned nerve damage to me though.

@Verbena87
Ps thank you for the hug I needed one :)

So sorry op. Totally get why you don't want to wear pads at your age. Some of the tenor lady pants are much slimmer now, could you bear to try them? Not very environmentaly friendly I know!

Period pants are fab, way way better than pads. Floweret and cheeky wipes do cheaper versions (I have some floweret ones and they’re grand, though modibodis last longer), and I saw M&S have got a range too.

I honestly can’t see why halfing a tampon is a problem, provided you use a clean blade and wash your hands. Might give it a try myself. I use a ring pessary for running (and it hasn’t stopped me doing pelvic floors: some physios are so binary about using pads/pessaries OR rehabbing with exercise and it’s nonsense. I could rely on only exercises and walk gently, or I could do exercises and wear a pessary when I’m bouncing and carry on running long distances cross country. No contest.) and when I asked about sterilising it, gynae said just to wash in hot soapy water and dry thoroughly to store, pointing out that things don’t need to be sterile to go in a vagina, just clean.

The nerve damage was inferred by urogynae looking at my labour notes, and talking to me about feeling numb. It just resolved very very gradually.

The levator muscles are part of the ‘sling’ of pelvic floor muscles running front to back (so support the side walls) - pretty sure one of mine was avulsed (torn off the bone. Yum.) during emergency forceps delivery of 10lbs9oz back-to-back baby, so there’s a lot of sideways stretch up there these days.

Thank you.

I guess I might have to just get my head around accepting that I do need something.
I saw M&S ones look like normalish pants. And I guess I could try wearing my actual knickers over the top so I felt more normal!

I’ve not seen my labour notes or asked about nerve damage. He wasn’t back to back for all of labour but they told me he turned as he was being born so he got stuck and then came out with his face up rather than down. I’m assuming that coupled with pushing hard for so long caused the damage. I blame myself a bit for being too busy and stressed at work to find the time or energy to exercise properly like I did with my first. I’m not sure if I should go back to the Drs or just accept that my body doesn’t work the way it did, if I do I’ll ask them about nerve damage too, although it’s been 2 years now.

Is there anyway for it to grow back onto the bone? That sounds painful.

You won’t need normal knickers on top - I quite often wear mine outside period week if I’m behind on laundry, they’re comfy and non-hideous.

“ I blame myself a bit for being too busy and stressed at work to find the time or energy to exercise properly like I did with my first.” - honestly, bollocks to this. I was running half marathons in the Welsh mountains before my pregnancy, stayed fit, did pelvic floor exercises daily throughout, pelvic floor still got mashed. Birth is risky and some things that can feel like personal failure are really sheer crappy luck.

The urogynae said it was likely he’d pressed a nerve against a bone during pushing for me so that sounds plausible. I was pushing 2 hours, and baby was wedged. Have you seen a gynaecologist as well as a physio? If not you could ask your GP for a referral as I found that helpful for understanding stuff and feeling at home in my changed body, plus he fitted my pessary and showed me how to manage it myself.

I think there might be scope for surgical repair at some stage but currently trying for a second baby, and hoping to put it off until they’ve had another few decades figuring out ‘repair’ strategies that mean I can run and lift fearlessly, rather than the current ones which seem to be geared towards making things look ‘normal’ aesthetically.

If you don't have the sensation to know when your bladder is getting full, surely that is something the doctor / physio should be trying to help with?
It sounds slightly different, but with urge incontinence due to overactive bladder they warn you against going to the toilet too often, or "just in case." It apparently makes the problem worse.

For periods, could you try Beppy soft tampons? Maybe with extra lube? They are a short circle of sponge so would be much more likely to fit. (They are disposable, not reusable.)
www.beppy.com/en/beppy-tampons/

Period pants are much more comfortable than pads. I have some WUKA ones. They wouldn't cope with a full bladder emptying, (so no temptation to slack on your exercises!) but would help with small leaks.

Wow @Verbena87 don’t think you can’t get much more active than half marathons in the Welsh mountains! I hope the pessary helps with the running and lifting.

I’ve only ever seen a physio (although the physio talked to a consultant before discharging me)
I was referred straight to the physio by my midwife as I was having an accident every time I breastfed. (My lovely old school midwife visited me at home and asked out right about bladder issues - so I said! No one had asked at the hospital) At that point I don’t think I had any control at all but practised my pelvic floor and got into the habit of going to the loo before I fed or expressed so by the time I’d stopped bleeding it was more the odd accident rather than every time. The GP didn’t check anything at my 6 week check and I knew I was on the waiting list for physio so never seen the doctor.

And I agree, functionality of a repair would be better than aesthetic, tbh I don’t even know what normal should/shouldn’t look like!

@Persille the physio has discharged me. They felt the risks outweighed the benefits, told me to keep up with the pelvic floor exercises and have given me advice on managing symptoms. I think that is what I find frustrating - do I accept that this is just a consequence of having a child? I don’t want to be back and forth to the doctor if there is genuinely nothing that can be done. Some days it just feels so unfair though and there’s no acceptance in day to day life and you can’t openly admit to it. I’ve spent at least 3 hours in the bathroom just today and it’s embarrassing and annoying.

Thank you for the link to the beppy tampons. They look like they would be worth trying. Though saving up for the period pants first!

And it is a full bladder loss when it happens rather than just a little leak but as long as I go to the loo often enough there isn’t too much! I don’t remember if I was told to go to the loo often or if I just got into the habit, I certainly wasn’t told not to. Now I don’t have a sensation of a full bladder but I do sense when I think I need the loo by how long it’s been and how much I’ve had to drink, it’s also when I know I won’t be near a toilet for a while too, eg I always use the toilet a few
times before I leave home or the office.

OP I feel your frustration.

I think I have a uterine prolapse and it's taken me over 2 years to pin down why I'm struggling with sex and using tampons.

Why aren't these issues spoken about in anticipation? A leaflet or something post childbirth would have been so helpful. I was told nothing about pelvic floor exercises.

Somethings been wrong with me for years but working out what has been so difficult!

Exactly OP, it's embarrassing; annoying; a waste of your precious time to have to spend so much time in the bathroom; and an extra mental load on you to have to work out when to use the toilet, plan when you'll be away from a toilet for a while, pack changes of clothes etc. It IS unfair. It shouldn't be something they just expect you to put up with.
The advice on managing symptoms, was that just the sort of strategies you've mentioned already? Did they discuss whether you are ever likely to regain sensation?

Even if you wanted to just give up and use pads, that wouldn't be an easy solution. Continence pads that can manage an adult bladders-worth are huge and bulky. It might restrict your clothing choices, they'd be annoying to carry about, and you couldn't fit a used one in a sanitary bin so would have to use the disabled toilet to find a big enough bin to dispose of them every time (or wrap them up and carry them home- they would get very heavy!). And you might still get the occasional leak. Add in the risk of skin irritation. Oh and of course it's really, really expensive.

I can believe that the risks (of something like surgery) might well outweigh the benefits. In the vaginal mesh scandal, wasn't the vaginal mesh that caused women so much pain meant to help with prolapse or bladder issues?
But why can't they put a bit more effort into finding safer, lower risk treatments? Such as supportive pessaries like Verbana talked about. And I'm sure I've read that in France, all new mothers are given a course of treatment with a machine that somehow stimulates and retrains the pelvic floor muscles after birth.

Instead, so many women stop exercising, or stop doing activities that would take them out of easy reach of a toilet, or drastically limit how much water they drink when out of the house, or limit their lives in various ways. This isn't good for our health.

Lots of sympathy OP. I hope it gets better with time and that you're able to afford comfortable period products very soon.

Thanks @Persille that’s kind of what I needed to hear!
I lived in France in my 20s (came home to start a family), I remember thinking after my first DC how annoying it must be to find time to go for “perineal re-education” as standard with a new baby. Now I think it’s a good idea!

And @carolcarolcarrot I agree. I was just given a leaflet of exercises to do both times. Then the second time happened to get them explained by physio to me on the post natal ward because she got the wrong woman and assumed I’d had c-section/assisted birth because of the way I was walking! Perhaps they should be covered a bit more in Mum and baby groups, along with the weaning and playing and feeding and exercise, could have a pelvic floor tips week too.

And yes the strategies I’ve been given are:
accidents-consider pads, limit to 2 cups of caffeinated drinks per day, do exercises to make sure my bladder is fully empty, try to stay positive and remember it only seems to affect me for 1 week a month
Sex-try different lubes, try different things, try relaxing more
Bowel problems - splint with fingers, eat and drink sufficient food to avoid constipation, have toys in the bathroom to entertain the kids to try and stop feeling stressed, try to relax
Tampons - use pads (and stop whining!)
I think they’ve implied that this is just life now and to get on with it. I was doing ok but tbh but I think it was the accident on the way to work that’s really knocked me.

I've got prolapses too. It's really embarrassing as I'm still fairly young. Physio helped but full body work outs helped more than doing kegals just on there own so maybe try an at home work out programme that targets glutes, core etc there's so many for women with prolapse such as femfusion on YouTube, flower empowered on YouTube, Sarah Ellis Duvall has prolapse and a programme to help strengthen etc, also remember this is a very common condition and a lot of women don't even know they have prolapse they just think weeing a bit after having kids is normal and something to joke about but as soon as prolapse is mentioned there's crickets 🦗 😂

Please search for FPOPS UK on fb a lovely supportive group specifically for prolapses feel free to join us *(im one of the admins) i have 3 prolapses and having multiple issues at the moment its a nightmare
I'm sorry you have all this going on sending huge hugs xxxx

Hi @Jenibluebell thank you for letting me know about the Facebook group. I must have missed the last couple of posts and only found it today when I wanted to read the kind messages after managing to get a Dr’s appointment but being told not to bring my kids with me (fine for me as DH can have them) but what if I couldn’t get childcare? Just the irony, yes come and see us about childbirth related problems but don’t bring a child!!

Hi OP, re working on your pelvic floor there is some useful info here: www.nutritiousmovement.com/1234-we-like-our-pelvic-floor/

Basically your pelvic floor depends on a lot of support from things other than your pelvic floor muscles, so you need to exercise your whole body, not just your pelvic floor muscles. If your physio already told you this (I hope they did!) please ignore