Soo after the Gatsby thread- anyone care to convince me about LOTR?

[littlelamb]

Because I looove the Great Gatsby, can't see why anyone wouldn't want to finish it but on the occasions I have tried with Lord of the Rings I have found it to be the most tedious wank and have given up after a few chapters. Is it really worth persevering with? I know so many people who love it but I just don't 'get' it. Does it improve?

Skip Tom Bombadil

Oooh - a challenge.

Well, there was a brilliant article in The London Review of Books a few years back when the film came out. I would list it's main points but I think that would be a spoiler - I'm dying to see what other people say.

So here's a starter, and I'll try to be provocative - LOTR is one of the most influential books of the twentieth century. It's given rise to a whole genre in literature, and the coming art form of the twenty-first century, video games, is hugely indebted to it.

It's worth reading just so you can take part in a really important bit of twetieth/twenty-first century culture.

It's another of those books that people feel compelled to write again and again and that's fascinating in and of itself.

Have you read The Hobbit first?

A lot of what happens in LOTR is inexplicable without knowing some of the background and characters that are introduced in The Hobbit.

moshie, I have tried with the Hobbit too, and I did find it a bit easier (it's meant to be a childrens book isn't it?) but I just found it such hard work

Ha - I love all Tolkein. The writing and language is so majestic, and the stories have got this sense of here-and-now things going on, but it's all underpinned by an epic scope spanning the whole of creation. Lovely.

I have a standing bet with my wife that if she ever reads the Silmarillion then I'll give her a grand. My grand is safe.

i agree with op, i know loads of people love lotr, but it is definitely lacking in style. yes, there is a huge fantasy genre, and it is a major part of that, and one of the more tolerable examples. however, he was a professor of anglo saxon studies, and it reads as an epic, like beowulf, more than a modern novel. that makes it difficult to read.

just because a load of others have been influenced by something doesn't make it good, eg nazi-ism was another major influence on the 20th C, but i would hate to say ti's good just because of that. (I am NOT saying that lotr & nazis are the same, just using a rather obvious eg ot back up my point)

Lol at comparing LOTR to the nazis. Dadonahottinroof - I don't suppose you'dcare to extend the bet to include me?

lotr is amazingly fab, you really must finish the hobbit first - and get to love middle earth.

tolkien is a fucker for going on...and .....on.....and...on with descriptions - im like ' right, ffs, i get it...its dark and rocky ffs it didn't warrent 2 effing paages" (in my head)

however i can't say that outloud becuase its almost akin to blasphemy in this house to dis anything about lotr.

also don't think that tolkein gave rise to fanatsy genre - similar stories have been around for centuries, he just wrote rather a long, turgid version of one.

it is typical 'male' writing - looong descriptions which slow things down too much. lotr, is more popular with men than women, women tend to focus on charactere & conversation, men more on description & action (massive generalisation, but about 60%true).

also allows blokes to read womething 'worthy' (long) whilst reverting to a 5 yo fantasy world.

kickassangel - My favourite expression of the sentiment you are expressing is "a thousand lemmings can't be wrong". Bit less incendiary than the old Nazism analogy.

Thing is, don't you want to find out why it's been so influential? Where's your curiosity?

Is TLOTR a boy/nerd thing? Am I an honorary boy/nerd?

i did say a generalisation. i know fans of it would be willing to lay down their lives in defense of lotr, but is just isn't a very well written book. yes, it's a good story, and i quite like the films, but the book is not GREAT literature. it's interesting & has had some influence, but it's like saying that das capital or the bible or something is a good book - they are not great literature. they are important, but if someone tried to sit down & read it all the way through they would find it hard going.

Custardo and Vampireswalkin - you're not boys/nerds either, are you?

Kickassangel - I think those other, earlier types of fantasy are more like proto-fantasy. There's a difference between them and what follows Tolkien.

I think the significant thing that Tolkien does, and I think this is what's at the heart of his meme-appeal, is that he spends soooo much time on his alt-universe. The architecture of it (just take the whole elf thing, for example,) is just on a whole other level.

And I think that is the significant feature of Tolkien.

And I think it's one of the absolutely fascinating things about video games. I remember reading something in a cyber-punk novel, where the hero is in a VR world and experiences a sense of frustration when the edge of the imaginary world comes into view.

There's something of that in Tolkien; it offers this amazing virtual creation, which is a very highly-crafted, artificial pleasure (the pleasure of all reading perhaps, but taken to the nth degree,) and then there's this sense of loss when the edge of the world comes in sight.

(Hmmm - maybe some link here between the end of the book and the voyage of the elves?)

I don't read for great literature, I read for a good story or to feel.

I get the good story with lotr

No, I am not a boy. Geek is a bit hit n miss though tbh

Sorry - nerd. is there a difference between nerd and geek? I always see geek as more computery...

It really is worth persevering IMO, but definitely read The Hobbit first.

I think it's one of those books where it's no good if the only reading time you get is 5 minutes in bed at the end of the day. You need to read it in decent chunks, at least until you are past Tom Bombadil and the story gets going because otherwise you get bogged down in a 2-page description as Custardo says. Tom Bombadil is a great part of the story though, but makes a lot more sense if you've read The Hobbit.

I'm not a boy, but I'm definitely a borderline nerd .

VampiresWalkin - I tend to use the two pretty vaguely. Apparently young persons now say "neek". I bunged it in because my bf studied computer science and having read LOTR was a noted characteristic of his cohort.

Kickassangel - It can't be mass fiction, a huge, popular hit and hard-going. Hard going for some, maybe ... but many belt through it.

And only a certain period of Eng Lit Studies exalted beautiful writing as the hallmark of Great Literature. Though, as someone whose critical tastes were formed in that period, i somewhat mourn its passing.

VampiresWalkin is right; it's a darn good tale. And actually, that's an incredibly significant and amazing thing to be.

I'm married to a geek (computers & gaming), his mates collectively signed our wedding book as "the geeks", and I think after stunning them all with button bashing one session I got christened an honorary geek, but I don't have the hardcore thing that they do

Now my mate is a geek

I love it, read it as I watched the movies. Did the same when the Tripods were on the telly way back when, loved that too.

Yes, skip Bombadil.

But ideally, read it at age 14. Or younger.

little, it is indeed the most tedious wank. Give up while you still have a personality.

I do like bits of The Hobbit. But there is a boundary that is not worth crosing and further Middle Earth adventures are only for the foolhardy.

I tried and gave up with LOTR. I've never regret it. I got addicted to the map.

The thing is, it reads like this
1 ominous predictions
2 deaths of a few key characters
3 Repeat
{battle
aimless-endless wandering in wilds by other characters
more big gruesome battles
more endless wandering
more violent and detailed battles
more endless wandering)
4 until reader is bored or hypnotised.

I got about 1/2 way thru the 2nd LOTR before I gave up, can't remember anything specific that happened. Tried to watch the films, managed to only get about 1/2 way thru the first film, it was indeed exactly like the books!

if you've got a spare two minutes and want a summary, here you are

Pointy that was brilliant!