📚'Rather Dated' Book Group - Winifred Holtby's 'The Crowded Street' 📚

[MotherofPearl]

Our RD book for February was Winifred Holtby's 'The Crowded Street'. I found this quite slow going at first, but by the end I was absolutely riveted by the story of Muriel and how she changes over time.

Perhaps because I grew up in a stifling provincial town I found the book really resonanted with me, despite being published in 1924 and set during and after the First World War. I thought Mrs Hammond was a very recognisable type - 'what will People say?' - and the suffocating atmosphere of a small town where social class and respectability are all rigidly policed was very successfully conveyed.

I alternated between feeling annoyed with Muriel and that she was a bit wet, and feeling really sorry for her and that she was a victim of circumstances. The story highlighted the plight of women at that time - especially of Muriel's social class - who failed to marry or find a career. I enjoyed the evolution of her relationship with Godfrey, and must admit that part of me was disappointed when she rejected his marriage proposal at the end, though I expect that makes me a Bad Feminist. 😊 I do see why she refused him though, of course. By then, with Delia's help, she had begun to make a life of her own, and could not return to Marshington and its values and way of life.

One part of the novel I found less compelling was Connie's story - I felt the marriage to Ben seemed unconvincing - the gap in social class seemed to be so large that I couldn't imagine Mrs Hammond allowing Connie to marry Ben, let alone forcing her to, though I suppose saving face because of Connie's pregnancy overrode any of that. That part of the book set in Thraile dragged a little for me - especially the bit about Ben's father (Mr Todd) and his fire-and-brimstone religious talk. The other thing I found a bit odd was the way that Clare sort of dropped out of the story. She played quite an important part in Muriel's early life, and there is a lot of emphasis on the impact that she had on Muriel, but then she disappears, and is only a background figure during the period of her engagement to Godfrey.

I am really keen to know what everyone else made of it, so will leave it there. Overall I loved this, and I will certainly be reading more Winifred Holtby.

I loved it. The period, the writing, all of it. I know a lot of people now sum up this kind of book as one in which nothing happens, but I think these slower paced novels, so common in earlier times, are actually brilliant.

Similarly to @MotherofPearl I think the book resonates with me because as soon as I was able to I left a rural setting, moved to London, and as a result stepped outside the circle of a difficult family. Muriel lived in a time when it was harder - people seem to have more opportunities now to just smash their way out of things if they really want to - but she got there in the end. Also, I think Muriel's growth is very modern. I made a note of this passage, which I could have written myself (although at an age somewhat older than Muriel at this point in the book):

What need to worry about her, about anyone? Muriel sat against the wall, her brooding eyes fixed on the kaleidoscope of colour before her. Two years ago, she would have smiled uncomfortably over her fan, pretending to wait for a non-existent partner. But now she was tired of pretence. The world was like that. There were always some some people who danced and some who sat by the wall, watching until the candles guttered in their sockets, until the dancers wearied of encircling arms, until the bleak, grey light peered through the curtained window. Muriel was just one of those. That was all.

It's noticeable how none of the male characters meet a classic Great War end. Being hit by a truck behind the lines is about as tragic as it gets. The introduction in the Virago copy I have mentions Vera Brittain and how Holtby suffered almost from a form of survivor syndrome, which must have been particularly acute in comparison to Brittain's experience of wartime grief.

The bombardment scene, I thought at first this was some kind of fantastic dream sequence. I had no idea about this real event.

I'm amazed there hasn't been a film version. I can almost see scenes from a Merchant Ivory type production. So many set pieces: the parties, the runaway horse, many arrivals and departures with associated meaningful looks lol.

In summary, really glad to have been introduced to this author and will certainly look for more by her.

It's a long time since I read this book, but if you liked it then please read Winifred Holtby's masterpiece "South Riding", which is fantastic.
It's incredibly sad that she died so young. She had a very intense friendship with Vera Brittain, and "Testament of Friendship" was Vera's book written after Winifred's death.

Thank you @MotherofPearl and @Waawo for your reviews of this book. I agree with you both.

I thought that Mrs Hammond was so stifling and domineering as a mother and she was rather villainous with regard to Connie, pushing her into marrying Ben.
I was also alternately sympathetic and annoyed with Muriel, but in the end i was sympathetic. I felt echoes of my own upbringing and the relationship I had with my mother when I was young. I was glad she didn't accept Godfrey's proposal. He didn't really love her; she was going to be useful to him.

I thought this was such an immersive book. I agree that Connie's story was a strange episode with aspects that reminded me of 'Wuthering Heights' in Thraile. Such an odd set-up. I think that Connie was on the rebound from her first relationship and Ben was there.

It was a shame that Holtby died so young. I would read more by her.

I took a while to get into this, having remembered that I started reading the first chapter a year or so ago and put it to one side for some reason. I then had a bit of a struggle getting into the flow of the story, but suddenly it clicked and I was eager to see how Holtby resolved Muriel's fate.

My over-riding feeling was sadness that Muriel seemed so lonely and unloved - both girls were little more than an anxiety to their dominating mother, who - ironically - was a character of immense strength and will despite her public face of feminine submission. Mrs Hammond was so much a force to be reckoned with that I was willing to cut Muriel some slack for her passivity, annoying though it often was. It was painful to see her making tiny attempts to assert her interest in astronomy and maths and be squashed flat. I think it’s quite hard for modern readers to grasp just how ruthless the social codes were at this time, and that Muriel would have had zero ability (not to mention zero money) to assert herself or make her own way in the world, so utterly dependent was she on her parents (and even the rebellious, sparky Connie only got away because of the war).
The good introduction to my Virago edition, by Clare Hardisty, pointed to the strong autobiographical elements in the novel; even though Holtby came from an enlightened family who didn’t stop her from going to university, she still felt pressure to fall in with family expectations. And that was even more true of her very close friend Vera Brittain, for whom the war unlocked a new world of possibility. The mention of Buxton in the novel alerted me to more possible autobiographical links here - that was where Vera Brittain's family home was.

There were also some interesting parallels, I thought, with a previous book we read, The New House, which was written a bit later - another story of two sisters, one stuck dutifully at home with a demanding mother, the other who gets away (and as it happens, the enterprising sister is called Delia!). There’s also a maiden aunt who serves as an example to be avoided to the sister at home - so this was far from an uncommon theme, especially around and after WW1 with a surplus of 'spare women'.

Agree that the character of Clare disappeared rather oddly from the narrative after such a strong start, but I can see that bringing her back into play would have made things too complicated when Holtby needed to bring the focus back to Muriel and give her the agency and confidence we were all hoping to see. A very satisfying ending to a really interesting and worthwhile read.

I disappeared down a rabbit hole looking into the WW1 bombardment of Scarborough.

My mother would recognise Mrs Hammond, what will people think was always her problem. My MIL is still similarly uptight. As you can imagine planning my wedding was a nightmare with trying to take into account the social codes of the previous 40 years. Mrs Hammond feels almost Austin regency at times but we still get these characters in every generation.

I was quite cross when I thought Maud was going to succumb to marriage and because I'd read that bit so fast, was quite stressed, the relief when it went the other way.

I'd have loved more on the Suffragettes but I guess that is covered in The Call and No Surrender (both Persephone reprints) with less on their previous lives more on the good fight.

I enjoyed this with some reservations- I really liked the opening at the party as I thought it was a vivid evocation of the time both in describing what happened and how Muriel felt about it. I also really liked the scene later at the Recreation where Muriel makes her debut for similar reasons. I liked Winifred Holtby’s writing style - it was very readable but it also felt like she was a very skilled writer.

I quite liked Muriel as a character, but I did feel that her life being so boring at times, created some problems for the author as it meant that there was nothing much interesting to describe at points during the novel (I think of this as the Madame Bovary problem as it’s the reason that I don’t much like that book either).

I liked Mrs Hammond rather more than other people and I could see that having her as the central character or Delia would have led to a more eventful or interesting novel although I can also see why Winifred Holtby wanted to explore the experience of someone who is not a success in such a stifling world.

Like others, I didn’t much like Connie’s story particularly the sad ending although I’ve recently read The Women by Kristin Hannah, which has a similar sad episode about a woman starting a new relationship after the presumed death of a previous lover at war. Perhaps that type of experience isn’t unusual in wartime.

I wasn’t surprised that Muriel didn’t marry Godfrey, as it became clear that she didn’t really care for him - but it was hard to see this as true emancipation given Muriel was acting in a wifely capacity to Delia.

I think South Riding is the more interesting book of the two due to Winifred Holtby’s focus on local government and education. I think that she is very good at describing how society works in her books, but South Riding gives her more scope for this. This is probably the most interesting part of her writing for me. That said, there was also a melodramatic element in South Riding to the fates of some characters similar to what happened in Connnie’s part of the book, which I didn’t particularly like in either book.

Only just found this thread and hadn't heard of this book, but have enjoyed other Winifred Holtby works including Anderby Wold, so thanks and will try to find it.

A couple of years ago we were in Rudston and visited her grave to say a quiet thank you. It is a lovely spot with beautiful views of the Yorkshire Wolds.

How lovely - I can think of so many authors who have given me so much pleasure, now nice to mark the gratitude even in a small way

I loved this. The depiction of Muriel was pin sharp and so moving to me. Especially when she was a child ( the party prologue was so good). The Connie storyline I didn’t like so much, it was a bit melodramatic and Mary Webb-ish, the kind of thing Stella Gibbons was parodying. Her death, though, surprised and shocked me. I was expecting her to recover, but I guess for the purposes of the novel, she had to.
The last line of the book is pitch perfect. Godfrey, turned down by Muriel, turning towards the bright colour of Phyllis’s dress. In a way, I wanted Muriel to accept him, but that’s because his house sounded so nice! Muriel might have had a nice life with him, but again for the purposes of the novel, I knew she’d say no.
The bombing of Scarborough was interesting, it had a kind of weird dreamlike quality. I was aware of the incident, but this was the first depiction I’d read in fiction.