Pride & Prejudice fans?

[BIWI]

New novel by comedian Rachel Parris:

https://www.waterstones.com/book/introducing-mrs-collins/rachel-parris/9781399751612

I really enjoyed this. Brings Charlotte to life very convincingly; makes Mr Collins and Lady Catherine de Bourgh more sympathetic - and adds a very satisfying element to her story.

I see from Advanced Search that you’ve been posting in this topic since 2021. Did you not think to ask this question before? Or were you just trying to catch me out here? Not falling for that.

It isn’t an unpleasant thread at all. Surely it’s just debate? I don’t see anybody being unpleasant except those who think people shouldn’t be on the thread if they’re not worshipping at the altar of some mediocre writing using a great writer’s characters. I don’t mind people using Austen’s characters, but if it’s supposed to be funny then I was clearly missing something in the sample I read.

Good that nobody has said that then, isn’t it?

I have to say that I didn’t realise how strongly people felt about writers using other writer’s characters, so long as they are out of copyright. And I don’t understand why it’s such an issue for some.

Implied several times.

If you want good stuff on Austen:
watch Clueless
read Bitch in a Bonnet
P&P with Zombies book (the film is terrible though)
Joan Aiken

So it’s OK for approved writers to borrow the characters? How do you decide?

I’m going on my opinions of what I found worth reading. I haven’t once said that nobody can borrow characters and that’s not what I think, so please don’t put words into my mouth.

I wasn't trying to catch you out at all. I knew someone had already used the words 'well-written', but I couldn't be bothered to look back to see who it was, because I wasn't bothered who it had been. I am interested in the words.
Years ago someone at work described a book as being 'well written' and I wondered what exactly she meant by that, and I have seen it again sometimes and I have indeed thought the question before but never actually asked it here on Mumsnet. I didn't do A-level Eng. Lit. or university Eng. Lit. although I did a few WEA classes and an OU Openings course, which taught me, I think, what constitutes a 'classic'. I have often wondered if those further studies, where I didn't go, discuss what a 'well-written' book is, and if there are any conclusions.

The question was for anyone, not only for you, but while I'm here, what do YOU mean by the words 'well-written book'?

It’s a really good question- and almost impossible to define an answer, although someone downthread had a really good go at it.

For me, it’s linked to:
a variety of sentence structures

accurate punctuation- I always notice when writers need to learn semi colon usage, although might just be me

I enjoy books more if I care about at least one character, but I don’t think that’s a pre-requisite for a book to be well written

I was going to say evocative imagery, but then I remembered Steinbeck, who uses very little whist being an amazing writer

I’ve therefore totally failed to define it and would be really interested to hear what others think.

I really don’t think that @upinaballoon is the type of person to “gotcha” someone else @BIWI (unless you’ve gone rogue @upinaballoon 😅)

Oh and I’m a literature graduate. I think it’s possible to see that books are ‘well written’ without actually liking them: I’d put Ishiguro in that category, for example, and probably Hilary Mantel.

I think 'well written' can mean different things. There are several factors rhat make a book enjoyable and very few writers, if any, achieve them all. I can think of: world building, use of language, psychological complexity, story telling, the 'importance' or message of the story or writing.

So, e.g. JK Rowling is often praised for her world building, George Orwell wrote important books with a message, Hilary Mantel has complex believable characters, Stephen King is a good storyteller, PG Wodehouse's use of language is sublime. But we can all no doubt think of their writerly faults as well.

I don’t think JKR’s books count as‘well written’ but she can certainly tell a story. I once saw an analysis of an extract of her work which said it would have only been a level 4 in the primary school writing assessment criteria at the time, irc. So she can spin a yarn for sure, and my name shows that I enjoy her world building and characterisation, but she certainly has (many imo) flaws as a writer.

Wodehouse, however, can do no wrong 😂 And King is certainly flawed, and recognises that himself. I’d still happily even read his shopping lists!

I love Wodehouse but the joy is in the turn of phrase. The characters, with the exception of our narrator Bertie, are pretty one dimensionable and the plots are ludicrous. But it doesn't matter because we are enjoying the sentences so much (TBF this is probably true of all comedies).

Brilliant!

Fortunately nobody is disputing the genius of JA, and as far as I'm aware nobody is trying to say RP is a genius.

That’s nothing to do with the point I was making- but I’m sure you know that.

I can never understand why the books of writers like Stephen King and Victoria Holt that made me a life-long reader (and many others as well) aren’t considered classics: these writers can certainly world-build, story-tell and use language well. On the other hand, books like Moby Dick and The English Patient (two boring great English classics I could never get into) are.

I'm a slow bucolic creature and I couldn't gotcha a sloth.

I’d rather direct people to the new podcast - an unabridged reading of P&P, read by Julie Andrews. Possibly one of the most soothing things I have ever listened to. A story I kniw like the back of my hand, read in her dulcet tones. Absolute bliss.

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/jane-austen-stories/id1840669662

I really loved that podcast @BitOutOfPractice - I’m hoping that she’s lined up to narrate the rest of JA’s books.

It is exactly what you said!

It really isn’t. Try reading it in the context of the thread. Or don’t- I really don’t care.

I think King is considered a classic, but perhaps only of the genre. The Stand is right up there as a/possibly even THE greatest post apocalyptic novel ever written.

The English Patient is a classic example of what I was trying to explain below about well written and enjoyable not necessarily being the same. I can see it’s well written but it’s really fucking boring!

As for Moby Dick, I enjoyed the stuff about the whaling industry far more than the actual story!