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I seem to have lost the ability to 'read between the lines'

24 replies

merrymaryquitecontrary · 11/09/2024 13:40

Not ND in any way, and I'm not good at picking up things in films, but as I get older I definitely am having issues with books. I used to be quite good at this, but the last few books I read left me quite puzzled. I've just finished Zadie Smith's The Embassy of Cambodia and I've no idea what the relevance of the embassy was or why she was sacked from the job. The book before left me with many questions too. Is this just me? I must point out that I got an A* in English Language, so I think my English skills are generally quite good!

OP posts:
MsAmerica · 12/09/2024 01:52

I don't know what "ND" is, but I sometimes have similar problems, with both books and movies.

I think sometimes I just take things at face value and don't think in terms of symbolism or allegory. But sometimes I just don't notice what the author/filmmaker expects me to notice. One of the funniest instances was a short story that halfway through involved a pursuit and I realized belatedly that I was supposed to remember what kind of cars the characters were driving.

MsNeis · 12/09/2024 11:14

Could it be that smartphones rob us of our ability to focus? I wonder constantly about this. I've always been an avid (and dare I say) good reader: I notice that now I go trough books very quickly, almost with urgency, as if I'm on edge. I read a lot of online content and I genuinely believe it's changed the way I read books. I used to immerse myself in them, now I notice so much less detail...

EmeraldRoulette · 12/09/2024 12:57

@merrymaryquitecontrary If it makes you feel any better, I find her work extremely difficult to get on with.

I haven't read this particular one but to be honest I probably wouldn't read her work again. Sometimes I think we just don't gel with a particular author.

Is it an unreliable narrator who wants you to fill the gaps?

There is ample proof that use of the Internet has changed how we read.

But I can see how a piece of work just may not suit you and it may be nothing to do with the Internet.

JaninaDuszejko · 12/09/2024 14:08

Fatou was an illegal immigrant who was a modern slave. They got rid of her at that point because they had another slave coming. It also was because they did not want to be indebted to her for saving their daughter's life, they couldn't look at her after that.

The Embassy of Cambodia is in real life a 1930s detached house in Willesden. Zadie Smith grew up nearby so she was probably aware of it since she was a small child. It serves several purposes in the story. It, along with the other properties on the street, tells you about the area and people who live there and so tells you about the Derawals. It also tells you that Andrew is not as educated as Fatou thinks, his statistics about Cambodia,the Rwandan genocide and the holocaust are all wrong. And there's the misdirection and mystery about the badminton game.

merrymaryquitecontrary · 13/09/2024 09:20

JaninaDuszejko · 12/09/2024 14:08

Fatou was an illegal immigrant who was a modern slave. They got rid of her at that point because they had another slave coming. It also was because they did not want to be indebted to her for saving their daughter's life, they couldn't look at her after that.

The Embassy of Cambodia is in real life a 1930s detached house in Willesden. Zadie Smith grew up nearby so she was probably aware of it since she was a small child. It serves several purposes in the story. It, along with the other properties on the street, tells you about the area and people who live there and so tells you about the Derawals. It also tells you that Andrew is not as educated as Fatou thinks, his statistics about Cambodia,the Rwandan genocide and the holocaust are all wrong. And there's the misdirection and mystery about the badminton game.

How did you know this from just reading the book though?! I got the modern day slave bit, but nothing else? How is it known that another slave was coming? That (now!) makes sense about her being sacked after the choking incident, but again are we supposed to understand this ourselves? I don't know London well but I got on the Willesden bus once and it seemed rough (I had a kebab there) so I couldn't understand why a nice embassy would be there. I think I need some sort of guide at the beginning of books to give some sort of insight.
@EmeraldRoulette I ordered White Teeth from the library, but flicked through a copy in a bookshop yesterday and I don't think she's my cup of tea. I recently came across a conversation from the author of The Colour Purple and how she felt about it being made into a film. She was saying the film left out so much that was obvious in the book, such as....and none of these things were obvious to me after reading the book.
I googled The Embassy and it is used in Eng Lang it seems and came with analysis, but I would have needed this analysis before I read the book!
@MsAmerica ND is an abbreviation for neurodiverse, ie autism, which might explain why I might have difficulty with this, but I don't even have that excuse. Good to know I'm not the only one who struggles with this.

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JaninaDuszejko · 13/09/2024 10:12

They tell her they have a niece (I think) coming, but saying a modern day slave is a relative is a common way to get them into the country so I'm making assumptions (which is what you are supposed to do). They aren't nice people so I think it's safe to assume they will lie to Fatou. The unhappiness with her after she saved their daughter's life is only shown by them not looking her in the eye. Yes, Willesden isn't the best area, that's why an embassy being there is strange but it's Cambodia and what do we know about Cambodia, the Khmer Rouge and the genocide and boat people, there was a Blue Peter appeal for the victims of Pol Pot that raised over £2M in 1980 so it's well remembered by people of Zadie Smith's age. So that adds to the sense of danger and unreliability in Fatou's life.

It's not really reading between the lines, it's remembering that everything in a short story is important. And enjoying working out the significance of things. If everything was explicitly stated it wouldn't be a good story. You have to bring your own experience to the story and pick up on the small things.

I read a book recently where two characters had had an affair but one had lost his memory in an accident so didn't remember it and before the end the only way you knew that was because the narrator (who doesn't know about the affair) reads a newspaper report about the accident that states the only other passenger was his SIL who was unharmed. And you might think 'oh, that's why she looks after him now, it's guilt because she was unharmed' but then you think, 'Hang on, that's unusual. I've never been in a car just with my BIL. And DH has never been in a car just with DSis. I wonder if those characters were having an affair'. And then the fun is knowing you picked up on that subtle hint.

Moonshiners · 13/09/2024 10:14

MsNeis · 12/09/2024 11:14

Could it be that smartphones rob us of our ability to focus? I wonder constantly about this. I've always been an avid (and dare I say) good reader: I notice that now I go trough books very quickly, almost with urgency, as if I'm on edge. I read a lot of online content and I genuinely believe it's changed the way I read books. I used to immerse myself in them, now I notice so much less detail...

I agree. I picked up miss Similar feeling for snow to read on holiday. I couldn't get past the first chapter I loved it as a teenager. I'm definitely more thick now and totally blame my stupid phone

merrymaryquitecontrary · 13/09/2024 11:31

MsNeis · 12/09/2024 11:14

Could it be that smartphones rob us of our ability to focus? I wonder constantly about this. I've always been an avid (and dare I say) good reader: I notice that now I go trough books very quickly, almost with urgency, as if I'm on edge. I read a lot of online content and I genuinely believe it's changed the way I read books. I used to immerse myself in them, now I notice so much less detail...

I think there could be a lot of truth in this. At times I feel like I've developed a sort of ADHD wrt reading. I find it really hard to lie down and really concentrate on a book, and I put this down to being accustomed to scrolling whilst doing other things at the same time. Now I often skim read pages that have detail on them as I feel it isn't important, it's like I don't have patience to get to the point, I want it immediately.

OP posts:
merrymaryquitecontrary · 13/09/2024 11:35

but it's Cambodia and what do we know about Cambodia

@JaninaDuszejko This is my problem, because I don't know anything about Cambodia Blush I wasn't in to Blue Peter (was too busy reading!) so this appeal definitely went past me. I've read books in the past where the author has put a few notes in the intro/foreward giving a bit of context about a geographical region/event that is mentioned. I think I need to stick to these books. What was the significance of the misdirected badminton game?

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EmeraldRoulette · 13/09/2024 12:24

@merrymaryquitecontrary Obviously, I don’t know what you do for work, but that has also affected my brain. I used to think that I was a lot more intelligent as a teenager! I now realise that it was a different type of intelligence and my brain wasn’t zapped by daily life. I could sit down and pick up all the nuances in this kind of book - but work situations are usually about interpreting things very quickly. Deep focus is not something that’s required in my work. Within a couple of years of leaving school, I noticed that my reading ability was much diminished.

I do agree about the Internet. I call it Twitter brain. I don’t have apps on my phone so I’ve only recently realised that I am possibly better off than people who can scroll all day long. I read Johann Hari “Stolen Focus” and it made me feel better about the situation.

But going back to this book, there will be lots of books that fit into this as well. If you don’t automatically know certain things, it may be that you’ll feel a bit lost. I found the same with Salman Rushdie. And probably other authors who I’ve now forgotten about.

I don’t know anything about Cambodia either. Didn’t watch Blue Peter.

going to guess the badminton is a way of doing unreliable narrator.

MsNeis · 13/09/2024 14:15

merrymaryquitecontrary · 13/09/2024 11:31

I think there could be a lot of truth in this. At times I feel like I've developed a sort of ADHD wrt reading. I find it really hard to lie down and really concentrate on a book, and I put this down to being accustomed to scrolling whilst doing other things at the same time. Now I often skim read pages that have detail on them as I feel it isn't important, it's like I don't have patience to get to the point, I want it immediately.

Yes, exactly ☹

Sneezeguard · 13/09/2024 17:56

Is it simply that you're less used to reading short stories than novels -- short stories typically leave far more unsaid, even though this is an extended one, comparatively speaking?

I don't think it's necessary to know anything about the history of Cambodia, other than what the story tells us, which is that it has had a genocide, and is poor enough for its embassy to not be with the other London embassies, somewhere rather grander in central London, but in a suburban house in Willesden, on a street with vulgar mansions, convents and retirement homes.

Fatou is fascinated by it, partly because of its oddity, of the apparently eternal game of badminton going on in the grounds, with the players invisible, just the shuttlecock visible over the fence, partly because of the young white people going inside, presumably for travel visas to visit Cambodia, a developing country, as tourists, while Fatou herself has travelled from Ivory Coast to Libya to Italy to London not as a tourist but as an economic migrant working menial jobs, paid for by her father (it's not clear whether he, or some people smugglers, or anyone, are benefiting from her enslavement by the Derawals, and nor is it clear how she got to the UK...)

Also fascinated by the Embassy is the nameless elderly woman standing on the balcony of the old people's home across from it, and who narrates the non-Fatou parts of the story, who is a sort of personification of Willesden, which is a melting pot of immigrants -- the Cambodians, Fatou, her Nigerian friend Andrew who has converted her to Catholicism, whoever lives in the houses with the names in Arabic, the awful (possibly Pakistani?) Derawals, who run a chain of suburban grocery shops and whose children have London accents. Andrew is kind, though misinformed and condescending, but other immigrants are not always allies.

Fatou is also fascinated by it because she has so few things to think about other than her own past as an immigrant in different countries, her rape, her conversion to Catholicism (she's fascinated by water in all her different contexts, whether it's baptism or swimming) -- she has no phone, no internet access, no TV, and only gleans scraps of news from discarded newspapers. In a Metro, she has read about a slave, but thinks she isn't one, because she's allowed out to go shopping (though she has no access to her passport, and is unpaid. The family fire her after she saves their ten year old from choking, and don't want to have to feel grateful, or treat her like a human being. (It's fairly clear that no relative is going to be staying in Fatou's tiny room...) Her only source of help is Andrew, who says he won't tale advantage of her sexually and will find her a job as a cleaner in the offices where he is a security guard. The story ends with her waiting for him outside the Embassy, watching the shuttlecocl appear and disappear behind the wall.

merrymaryquitecontrary · 13/09/2024 18:08

Sneezeguard · 13/09/2024 17:56

Is it simply that you're less used to reading short stories than novels -- short stories typically leave far more unsaid, even though this is an extended one, comparatively speaking?

I don't think it's necessary to know anything about the history of Cambodia, other than what the story tells us, which is that it has had a genocide, and is poor enough for its embassy to not be with the other London embassies, somewhere rather grander in central London, but in a suburban house in Willesden, on a street with vulgar mansions, convents and retirement homes.

Fatou is fascinated by it, partly because of its oddity, of the apparently eternal game of badminton going on in the grounds, with the players invisible, just the shuttlecock visible over the fence, partly because of the young white people going inside, presumably for travel visas to visit Cambodia, a developing country, as tourists, while Fatou herself has travelled from Ivory Coast to Libya to Italy to London not as a tourist but as an economic migrant working menial jobs, paid for by her father (it's not clear whether he, or some people smugglers, or anyone, are benefiting from her enslavement by the Derawals, and nor is it clear how she got to the UK...)

Also fascinated by the Embassy is the nameless elderly woman standing on the balcony of the old people's home across from it, and who narrates the non-Fatou parts of the story, who is a sort of personification of Willesden, which is a melting pot of immigrants -- the Cambodians, Fatou, her Nigerian friend Andrew who has converted her to Catholicism, whoever lives in the houses with the names in Arabic, the awful (possibly Pakistani?) Derawals, who run a chain of suburban grocery shops and whose children have London accents. Andrew is kind, though misinformed and condescending, but other immigrants are not always allies.

Fatou is also fascinated by it because she has so few things to think about other than her own past as an immigrant in different countries, her rape, her conversion to Catholicism (she's fascinated by water in all her different contexts, whether it's baptism or swimming) -- she has no phone, no internet access, no TV, and only gleans scraps of news from discarded newspapers. In a Metro, she has read about a slave, but thinks she isn't one, because she's allowed out to go shopping (though she has no access to her passport, and is unpaid. The family fire her after she saves their ten year old from choking, and don't want to have to feel grateful, or treat her like a human being. (It's fairly clear that no relative is going to be staying in Fatou's tiny room...) Her only source of help is Andrew, who says he won't tale advantage of her sexually and will find her a job as a cleaner in the offices where he is a security guard. The story ends with her waiting for him outside the Embassy, watching the shuttlecocl appear and disappear behind the wall.

I've never read a short story before, so this is possible. How did you know who narrated the non Fattou parts, as I was wondering this? And is it normal for people to play badminton in an embassy? And do we think Andrew will take advantage of her?

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Sneezeguard · 13/09/2024 18:37

@merrymaryquitecontrary, in section 0-13, that narrator imagines the hostile reaction she would get from the people of Willesden if they knew she was speaking for them, and the reply she imagines getting is 'We see you standing on the balcony, overlooking the Embassy of Cambodia, in your dressing gown, staring into the chestnut trees, looking gormless.'

And we were told in an earlier section, the one about the other strange buildings on the same road as the Embassy, that there's a dingy retirement home 'where one sometimes sees distressed souls, barely covered by their dressing gowns, standing on their tiny balconies, staring into the tops of the chestnut trees.'

I assume the narrator is one of the the 'distressed souls' in the old people's home.

No badminton in any of the embassies I've ever been in!

Re. Andrew, I would be more worried that she would marry him! We do see her awareness of his attraction to her, and her own lack of attraction to him, and awareness of his weakness -- she tries to imagine him as a husband but sees him as a teenage son. Then again, she will now have internet access, and to keep her own earnings from cleaning, and has her passport, so maybe life is taking a turn for the better?

MsAmerica · 13/09/2024 23:05

@merrymaryquitecontrary, I was just thinking of you last night, as I'm reading a very good, albeit disturbing, book (Eviction, by Matthew Desmond), about a bunch of impoverished people facing eviction - and I suddenly realized I had no recollection of any distinction between two of the women.

Something else occurred to me. I have an unfortunate tendency to skim, and it also struck me that most authors often don't write vividly enough to get things to "stick" in your head. That's what's so amazing about Dickens. He can introduce a character in passing, and then if the character re-appears 200 pages later, you still remember exactly who it is, because he made it so vivid.

EmeraldRoulette · 14/09/2024 00:18

@MsAmerica totally agree about Dickens!

DesigningWoman · 14/09/2024 00:37

MsAmerica · 13/09/2024 23:05

@merrymaryquitecontrary, I was just thinking of you last night, as I'm reading a very good, albeit disturbing, book (Eviction, by Matthew Desmond), about a bunch of impoverished people facing eviction - and I suddenly realized I had no recollection of any distinction between two of the women.

Something else occurred to me. I have an unfortunate tendency to skim, and it also struck me that most authors often don't write vividly enough to get things to "stick" in your head. That's what's so amazing about Dickens. He can introduce a character in passing, and then if the character re-appears 200 pages later, you still remember exactly who it is, because he made it so vivid.

He had to, though, because he was writing serially for periodicals, so he had to make sure the characters and plot were vivid enough for people to want to read the next instalment and to remember the previous one when they did, even though it might have been a fortnight or a month since they read it.

I can’t remember whose research it was, but I read something fascinating about estimating the circulation of Dickens’ serials — that for every copy sold, that copy was passed around or read aloud to a significant number of extra readers. So you couldn’t even flick back and remind yourself of last week’s cliffhanger, because you might only have had sight of a borrowed copy. Dickens just had to be memorable.

setmestraightplease · 14/09/2024 00:44

@merrymaryquitecontrary I ordered White Teeth from the library, but flicked through a copy in a bookshop yesterday and I don't think she's my cup of tea

I think this may be what sums it up. (I feel the same, despite the book being highly acclaimed)

There are many authors' work that I just don't enjoy reading / don't understand - but it's because I'm just not on the same wavelength.

It doesn't mean the book is bad or that I have a problem in understanding or concentrating or trying to interpret what the author means..........

I think books are just like the people you meet in everyday life - some people you get on with instantly, some people you tolerate out of politeness and some people you just don't understand at all 🙂

mathanxiety · 14/09/2024 01:04

merrymaryquitecontrary · 13/09/2024 11:35

but it's Cambodia and what do we know about Cambodia

@JaninaDuszejko This is my problem, because I don't know anything about Cambodia Blush I wasn't in to Blue Peter (was too busy reading!) so this appeal definitely went past me. I've read books in the past where the author has put a few notes in the intro/foreward giving a bit of context about a geographical region/event that is mentioned. I think I need to stick to these books. What was the significance of the misdirected badminton game?

It's funny how you picked up the small detail of the Blue Peter appeal.

merrymaryquitecontrary · 14/09/2024 07:36

@Sneezeguard that makes so much sense now, I had no idea who the woman in the dressing gown was supposed to be. @MsAmerica I'm at the stage now that I can be totally engrossed in a book, dreaming about the characters, but within a day of finishing it I can't remember much about it at all. @setmestraightplease I really liked The Embassy and how it was written, so I don't think I don't like Smith's style, but White Teeth definitely isn't for me. @mathanxiety I didn't feel BP was a small issue, a pp said the situation in Cambodia was known because of BP's appeal. I didn't like BP, I couldn't quite see the point in it.

OP posts:
JaninaDuszejko · 14/09/2024 09:07

mathanxiety · 14/09/2024 01:04

It's funny how you picked up the small detail of the Blue Peter appeal.

The Blue Peter appeal isn't in the story, it was mentioned by me to show that the genocide in Cambodia was well known about in the UK even by children. You didn't need to be well informed to know about it (Fatou remembers knowing about it after Andrew explained it to her).

JaninaDuszejko · 14/09/2024 09:09

@merrymaryquitecontrary I didn't particularly like White Teeth, it was too Dickensian for me but I've enjoyed her later writing.

EmeraldRoulette · 14/09/2024 11:45

@merrymaryquitecontrary interesting about being engrossed and then forgetting a day later. I wouldn’t say I forget a day later but give it a few months!

I’m finding it very hard to get engrossed in anything in the first place. Maybe I’m reading the wrong books but if I don’t find something soon, I’m going to worry it’s my my brain.

Sneezeguard · 14/09/2024 15:10

JaninaDuszejko · 14/09/2024 09:07

The Blue Peter appeal isn't in the story, it was mentioned by me to show that the genocide in Cambodia was well known about in the UK even by children. You didn't need to be well informed to know about it (Fatou remembers knowing about it after Andrew explained it to her).

I'm not from the UK and have actually never seen an episode of Blue Peter in my life! But again, I don't think this story needs any knowledge that it doesn't give us, whether it's about Cambodia, or about the woman in the dressing gown -- it gives us what we need to know to read the story. Other than that, if we want to Google the Cambodian embassy or look it up on Google Streetview to see that, yes, it is a suburban villa at an anonymous crossroads in Willesden, than that's a fun extra.

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