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People in books never have friends

70 replies

Lelophants · 03/09/2024 20:01

Anyone else noticed that in books unless it’s a chic lit style book (in which case they have 1 or 2 other women that they have an intense relationship with toxic and ott normally) most book characters just don’t have friends? They’ll have a potential love interest or maybe one person but then they’ll move location or do something on their ‘adventure’ and they have nobody permanent in their lives that they check in with/catch up with occasionally? They’re always on their own.

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Sheelanogig · 03/09/2024 20:34

No. I've not noticed that.
What authors do you read?

EasyComfortDishes · 03/09/2024 20:42

Apparently it’s quite difficult to write lots of characters esp if they aren’t central to the story. Stephen king is every good and creating a community and how people are connected to each other. I read an interview with an author who had written a book where the character had lots of friends who weren’t necessarily connected to the main story line and they spoke about how difficult and unusual it was and why most authors don’t do it. Ditto films/TV shows.

Featherrrr · 03/09/2024 20:45

It's why in a lot of tv shows like Gilmore Girls, hardly any characters have siblings. It's difficult to write so many characters and also difficult to completely ignore them

JoanOgden · 03/09/2024 20:47

Yes I always notice this! But it would be tricky to work the friends in, wouldn't it. "Jane came back from dinner with her nice friend Caroline who is totally irrelevant to the plot" etc

EasyComfortDishes · 03/09/2024 20:52

Apparently Moana had five siblings when they started writing the film and they got rid of them all.

JaninaDuszejko · 03/09/2024 21:00

It's completely standard in books and TV shows. Films are even worse, you know every interaction is essential to the plot.

Having said that there are long books or series with complete societies interacting with each other. So My Brilliant Friend (4 book series) or South Riding (long book) has lots of characters who intetact in different ways. Or some authors have characters as major characters in some books but minor characters in others (Elizabeth Stroud, Barbara Pym, David Mitchell).

Lelophants · 03/09/2024 21:03

I think it’s more that they never say ‘met with one of her old school friends’ or anything in passing. They always seem incredibly alone and disconnected from everyone else.

All sorts of books! ATM im reading the Seven Sisters Series (Lucinda Riley).

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HowardTJMoon · 03/09/2024 21:04

Oh wow, you're right! I'd never noticed it before but now you've mentioned it, it really stands out. It's like when you first hear about the Bechdel test.

Lelophants · 03/09/2024 21:05

JaninaDuszejko · 03/09/2024 21:00

It's completely standard in books and TV shows. Films are even worse, you know every interaction is essential to the plot.

Having said that there are long books or series with complete societies interacting with each other. So My Brilliant Friend (4 book series) or South Riding (long book) has lots of characters who intetact in different ways. Or some authors have characters as major characters in some books but minor characters in others (Elizabeth Stroud, Barbara Pym, David Mitchell).

That makes sense with films because they probably have friends you don’t see because you are just watching what’s essential. With books they have time to talk about putting the kettle on, mulling over what was written in the secret letter or whatever, ran a long bath etc Often they’re in trouble and literally no one has messaged saying “are you ok?” And they seem to have no interest in checking in on anyone else.

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HarpyBirthday · 03/09/2024 21:17

Not really no.

The books I've read where ppl have no friends tend to be where its a by product of that person's character.

Blueybanditbingochilli · 03/09/2024 21:22

Yes I’ve noticed this. They have 1 best friend but that’s it.

HippyKayYay · 03/09/2024 21:25

I thought exactly this when I read Yellowface. I mean, she tries to make it part of her character that she’s relatively friendless, but it’s not that believable and feels like a plot device.

But not all books do this! I just finished Demon Copperhead, which does a great job of painting the character’s complex interrelationships, for eg

moonshinepoursthroughmywindow · 10/09/2024 10:14

I've just been on Goodreads and reminded myself of the last 10 books I reviewed. I would say friends played a significant part in 6 of them. One was literally all about the difference a new friendship made to a lonely person, but the others just had friends in them as subsidiary characters who were mentioned quite often. In two, you really got the sense of how important the friends were to the main character, in the others they were just there as part of an overview of that person's life.

LostittoBostik · 10/09/2024 10:17

What are you reading?

I can think of lots of novels that include complex friendships that are often a key part of the plot

FlyHalf · 10/09/2024 10:21

It's Chekhov's 'gun on the mantelpiece' principle - you should only mention things that are relevant to the plot, or else it's distracting.

Eg, if you read 'Sarah came back from dinner with her school friend Katie, and immediately phoned Rob...' your brain registers Katie, and wonders if she's got something to do with Rob. Did they date? Do they know each other? Will Katie reappear in the plot and reveal she's Rob's secret half-sister?

If you added all the every day details of real life to books - going to the loo, emptying the bin, doom scrolling - they'd all be 300,000 words long.

WeneedSamVimesonthecase · 10/09/2024 10:29

Thinking about the books I read…

  • Chronicles of St Mary’s: Max’s colleagues are also her friends.
  • Time Police books: Team Weird are friendly colleagues, when they’re not at each other’s throats.
  • Julia Quinn and Elouise James books: the main characters usually have friends or make them as the story progresses (one of things I like about these books is they normally show strong, supportive female friendships)
  • Discworld books: again, we tend to be “colleagues who are also friends” territory here - Colon and Nobbs, Granny and Nanny, etc. Tiffany Aching has friendships, and Agnes Nitt does too. Lady Sybil is noted for keeping in touch with her old school friends.
  • Rivers of London: Peter Grant has “colleagues who’ve become friends”, and contacts who he stays of friendly terms with, rather than actual mates, I suppose.
  • Natasha Pulley novels: actually this does mostly hold true for her books. The characters that start as friends usually become love interests.

So I suppose it mostly holds true - they only have friends if they can be involved in the plot (eg: colleagues). The only exception seems to be the Regency romances, possibly because all wealthy young women got to do in those days was socialise, so there’d be very little plot if they didn’t have friends to do it with.

AtomicBlondeRose · 10/09/2024 10:29

My DD has noticed this about children’s books - she says “why are they always girls who sit on their own and nobody understands them? I want to read about someone who has some friends!”

SkaneTos · 10/09/2024 10:42

Interesting discussion!

I have found this to be true in some books, yes.
Also, quite often, not always, but quite often, adults in books don't have siblings.
(Unless it's a big plot point, like Marian Keyes's five Walsh sisters.)

AtYourOwnRisk · 10/09/2024 10:46

FlyHalf · 10/09/2024 10:21

It's Chekhov's 'gun on the mantelpiece' principle - you should only mention things that are relevant to the plot, or else it's distracting.

Eg, if you read 'Sarah came back from dinner with her school friend Katie, and immediately phoned Rob...' your brain registers Katie, and wonders if she's got something to do with Rob. Did they date? Do they know each other? Will Katie reappear in the plot and reveal she's Rob's secret half-sister?

If you added all the every day details of real life to books - going to the loo, emptying the bin, doom scrolling - they'd all be 300,000 words long.

Yes, this, and what @JaninaDuszejko said. (I write novels.) Yes, in real life most people have friends. In novels, even minor characters have to earn their keep by contributing to plot/character development etc.

If the plot is based on something that happens when ten old school friends meet for a reunion on an isolated island, then the friends are baked into the plot, but you won’t then have those ten characters phoning their other friends from different parts of their lives to tell them what’s going on, because it dilutes the plot and introduces too many random new names. It’s why PD James characters are almost always very isolated people, apart from the context in which we meet them around a murder (a private clinic, a religious community, an island where important public figures holiday) — she only wants to show them in a single context.

The novel I’m writing at the moment has a main character with no one she’s close to other than her sister, her DH and her married affair partner, who all need to be there for reasons of plot. When I need her to be out in a social context for plot reasons, I send her to a birthday party or an evening work event. Her character wouldn’t work or do the things she does if she had a gang of close friends she was frank with. She does talk to a graffiti tagger she meets out on early runs, but again, there’s a reason for that.

Even classic novels do it. Jane Eyre, despite loving and respecting her former teacher, later colleague and friend, Miss Temple, never hears from her again by so much as a letter after Miss Temple marries. It’s quite weird, but the plot needs JE to be alone and friendless, without sensible advice.

TL;dr. Friends in a novel are needed to play a role for plot/character purposes, otherwise they’re not there. Or genre purposes. Chick lit will generally have a stronger focus on friendships than, say, crime.

Edingril · 10/09/2024 10:47

Well they seem to have some when they get an important call have 6 young kids and say 'see you in 10 mins' and miraculously child care appears

Tomorrowisyesterday · 10/09/2024 10:51

Yes I see this - you often wonder why they aren't asking their sister or friend for some advice about the job offer in the remote village with the handsome man

KohlaParasaurus · 10/09/2024 10:56

I used to get quite envious of the enduring and highly believable female friendships in some of the novels I read. Fay Weldon, Margaret Drabble and Maeve Binchy spring to mind. I'm not a huge fan of Marian Keyes's novels (though she comes across as someone I'd love to sit next to at a dinner party) but she writes female friendships well.

MorrisZapp · 10/09/2024 10:58

Lelophants · 03/09/2024 20:01

Anyone else noticed that in books unless it’s a chic lit style book (in which case they have 1 or 2 other women that they have an intense relationship with toxic and ott normally) most book characters just don’t have friends? They’ll have a potential love interest or maybe one person but then they’ll move location or do something on their ‘adventure’ and they have nobody permanent in their lives that they check in with/catch up with occasionally? They’re always on their own.

Yip, and on TV and film too. You can have family or you can have friends. You can't have both.

I always used to wonder about Sex and the City, how they didn't appear to have any family at all. None of them.

AtYourOwnRisk · 10/09/2024 11:08

WeneedSamVimesonthecase · 10/09/2024 10:29

Thinking about the books I read…

  • Chronicles of St Mary’s: Max’s colleagues are also her friends.
  • Time Police books: Team Weird are friendly colleagues, when they’re not at each other’s throats.
  • Julia Quinn and Elouise James books: the main characters usually have friends or make them as the story progresses (one of things I like about these books is they normally show strong, supportive female friendships)
  • Discworld books: again, we tend to be “colleagues who are also friends” territory here - Colon and Nobbs, Granny and Nanny, etc. Tiffany Aching has friendships, and Agnes Nitt does too. Lady Sybil is noted for keeping in touch with her old school friends.
  • Rivers of London: Peter Grant has “colleagues who’ve become friends”, and contacts who he stays of friendly terms with, rather than actual mates, I suppose.
  • Natasha Pulley novels: actually this does mostly hold true for her books. The characters that start as friends usually become love interests.

So I suppose it mostly holds true - they only have friends if they can be involved in the plot (eg: colleagues). The only exception seems to be the Regency romances, possibly because all wealthy young women got to do in those days was socialise, so there’d be very little plot if they didn’t have friends to do it with.

And yes to the point about Regency romances. But even then, think of Austen. All the ‘friend ’ characters are there for a reason.

In P and P, Charlotte Lucas is there to provide semi-comic plot resolution to one of Lizzy Bennet’s wrong’ matches, to get Lizzy into contact with Darcy again away from her family at Hunsden, and to show us what happens when a plain, sensible woman ages out of the marriage market and wants her own home, but can’t marry for love. Jane Bennet’s ‘friend’ Caroline Bingley is there to facilitate/frustrate the Bingley romance plot — she appears to have no others. Lydia’s friend Mrs Forster is there to provide the invitation to Brighton which facilitates the elopement. Kitty and Mary have no friends because there’s no plot need for them.

The Bingley/Darcy friendship never strikes me as a natural one (proud, snobbish Darcy hanging around with very new money, only one generation removed from trade), but, otherwise, a proud, standoffish man of enormous wealth and good family wouldn’t be hanging out at a small town Assembly hall), so it’s needed to introduce Lizzy and Darcy. Similarly, Colonel Fitzwilliam is needed to give Lizzy information about Darcy breaking up the Jane/Bingley romance that she couldn’t have got elsewhere, and maybe also to show us that here’s an aristocrat who is also attracted to Lizzy, but tells her lightheartedly that an Earl’s younger son can’t marry where he chooses, hence another match she’s not eligible for.

There’s a reason for all these people.

Lelophants · 10/09/2024 12:47

HarpyBirthday · 03/09/2024 21:17

Not really no.

The books I've read where ppl have no friends tend to be where its a by product of that person's character.

Which books have you last read and how many friends are mentioned?

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