Did She Fall Or Was She Pushed? Dangerous Liaisons Readalong 2024

[BishyBarnyBee]

Following a series of successful Fallen Women readalongs - War and Peace, Anna Karenina, Madame Bovary, Ruth - we continue our exploration of desire, hypocrisy, disgrace and redemption with the earlier (and even more scandalous) Dangerous Liaisons.

Widely adapted in text, film, opera and even ballet, Les Liaisons Dangereuses is an epistolatory novel comprising 175 letters.

Author Chodelos de Laclos "resolved to write a book that would be quite outside the ordinary trend, which would make a sensation and echo over the world after I left it." His book was a succès de scandale on its 1782 publication, reviewed as "diabolique" while becoming an instant bestseller. Marie Antoinette commissioned a blank cover copy for her library, and Virginia Woolf later read it with "great delight".

Readalongs are Mumsnet's best kept secret - a quiet corner of the site where we tackle the books we might not manage alone, sharing our thoughts and reactions, and encouraging each other to keep going when life - or the book - are challenging. It's fine to dip in and out as life permits, very few of us manage to keep up consistently.

We've only heard good things about DL, so do join us for a cracking good read. We start 1st May, 1 letter a day:

1 - 31 May Letters 1 - 31
1 - 30 June Letters 32 - 61
1 - 31 July Letters 62 - 92
1 - 31 August Letters 93 - 123
1- 30 September 124 - 153
1 - 22nd October 154 - 175

There are summaries of each letter at shmoop.com. I'll post them when I can, but anyone is welcome to start us off if you are first here on the day.

Looking forward to it!

Les Liaisons dangereuses (Dangerous Liaisons) Summary

Free summary and analysis of the events in Pierre Ambroise François Choderlos de Laclos's Les Liaisons dangereus...

Letter 5: The Marquise de Merteuil to the Vicomte de Valmont

• Merteuil mocks Valmont for his plot. She believes it isn't doable or worthwhile.
• She tells him that prudish women can never really give a man pleasure, and besides, she thinks Tourvel is pretty unattractive.
• She has a different task for Valmont that suits her own purposes for revenge against Gercourt.
• Good news for her own plot, Cécile already has an admirer: the Chevalier Danceny. He's her music teacher.
• Merteuil jokes about her own current lover, another chevalier, whom she might just decide to leave just to make him miserable. She enjoys seeing her lovers suffer.

Letter 6: The Vicomte de Valmont to the Marquise de Merteuil

• Valmont defends his plot to seduce Madame de Tourvel.
• He says that since the weather's been very hot, he's been able to see her in her lounging clothes.
• He likes what he sees under the thin fabric.
• He's already been able to get his hands on her and he can't wait to tear her away from her husband and from God.
• He's gotten her attention by confessing all his faults and pretending to be remorseful.

• Letter 5: The Marquise de Merteuil to the Vicomte de ValmontMerteuil mocks Valmont for his plot. She believes it isn't doable or worthwhile.
• She tells him that prudish women can never really give a man pleasure, and besides, she thinks Tourvel is pretty unattractive.
• She has a different task for Valmont that suits her own purposes for revenge against Gercourt.
• Good news for her own plot, Cécile already has an admirer: the Chevalier Danceny. He's her music teacher.
• Merteuil jokes about her own current lover, another chevalier, whom she might just decide to leave just to make him miserable. She enjoys seeing her lovers suffer.

https://www.shmoop.com/study-guides/dangerous-liaisons/part-1-letters-1-5-summary.html

Sorry, didnt realise this had been posted, my page must not have refreshed.

Thanks@Brie2001 and @musicmaiden for posting the summaries while we were away. We had a gorgeous extended weekend in the Welsh mountains but I couldn't manage to cut, paste and format the summaries on my unco-operative phone.

Interesting point about hi-jacking religious language, @DanceMove , and yes, I'd think that would be even more shocking than the affairs.

There is a degree of contempt for Cecile that is quite sad, I think. Like watching a group of motherless ducklings cross a main road this weekend - you can see where it's heading and can hardly bear to watch. Though the group we were watching in Wales did make it - I wonder if there is any chance of Cecile coming through this in one piece? The spoilers in the Publisher's note suggest not.

Letter 6: The Vicomte de Valmont to the Marquise de MerteuilValmont defends his plot to seduce Madame de Tourvel.

• He says that since the weather's been very hot, he's been able to see her in her lounging clothes.
• He likes what he sees under the thin fabric.
• He's already been able to get his hands on her and he can't wait to tear her away from her husband and from God.
• He's gotten her attention by confessing all his faults and pretending to be remorseful.

Letter 7: Cécile de Volanges to Sophie CarneyCécile tells Sophie all the wonderful things about Danceny.

• She's under the mistaken impression that, because he's a Knight of Malta, he can't marry.
• He's very complimentary and attentive to her.
• She likes him; she really likes him.

Letter 8: The Présidente de Tourvel to Madame de VolangesMadame de Tourvel wishes Madame de Volanges well on her daughter's upcoming marriage.

• She tells her friend about Valmont, how he confides in her, and how she lectures him. She'd hope to turn him towards goodness, but she thinks that as soon as he got back to Paris, he'd revert to his old ways.

Have been enjoying this so far, last time I read it was at uni so obviously it seems different now.

The epistolary format really plunges you into the action and the characters in an immediate way which makes me wonder why there aren't more books like it. Have only read Clarissa which is obviously a very similar book.

Am struck by how crap my french is, I can read and understand it easily enough but when I turn to the penguin classic translation there's lots of nuance I'm missing.

Hope everyone enjoying it as much!

Letter 9: Madame de Volanges to the Présidente de Tourvel

• Having heard about Valmont, Madame de Volanges warns her friend about his treachery and villainy.
• She hints at scandals and reputations destroyed by his plots and wants his aunt to send him away.
• She can't believe that Tourvel is even speaking to him.
• She goes on at length about the women he's victimized because of his ability to manipulate them.
• She begs Tourvel not to put her reputation at stake by hanging around with this guy.
• In other news, the marriage of her daughter Cécile is delayed because Gercourt can't get a leave of absence from the military just yet.

Well...she's not wrong!

I was only able to post the summaries yesterday but have now caught up and have a few thoughts.

La Presidente is only 22! I thought she was much older, perhaps because the word Presidente which carries such authority - though in fact just means she is married to an MP, I think?

Chapter 6 is pretty filthy, non? You can feel the sensuality in his descriptions of the single muslin handkerchief covering her breasts, and the awkward intimacy of the ditch crossing embrace. His chilling prediction that she will sin, and then only be able to forget her sins in his arms. Gripping stuff.

Has the 16 year old Cecile fallen for Danceny precisely because she (mistakenly) believes he is unavailable? At that age and with her sheltered upbringing, a harmless crush might be much less threatening than her looming marriage to the absent Gercourt.

I miss a lot of nuance reading in English, so I can see how in French you might follow the plot but lose some of the meaning. But it must be great to read the original text. I think one of the reasons I enjoy the readalongs is having other people pick up on different aspects, I end up with a much fuller understanding than when I read alone.

I'm reading it in French and listening to an audiobook on Spotify to catch up on what I miss. The Shmoop summaries are very useful too and of course our discussions.

I think that Mme de Volanges has been so forthright with La Présidente about Valmont that she has been well and truly warned! She has been told! I found it amusing that Volanges doesn't know the extent of Merteuil's conniving. She is like a snake in the grass. She is very cutting about La Présidente. Yes, the poor girl is only twenty-two and she is calling her old!

I'm gradually getting into the book and getting used to know who's who. The epistolary style is interesting. Straight into the action, no hanging about. It's odd not to have the frame of a traditional novel with scene-setting descriptions and the viewpoint of a narrator although there are interjections in the form of notes sometimes. Must go read letter 10!

Aha so La Présidente is Mme de Tourvel? My translation doesn’t use LP and I was wondering who I’d missed!

She has most definitely been warned hasn’t she? I loved the part where she writes about how she lectures VdV with great severity and you can see exactly which buttons he’s pressed.

Yes Cornish! exactement :) * *

My paperback came today (previously reading it on Kindle) thought I'd throw my cover into the mix. It's a bit Blackadder, I prefer the illustrated covers.
I noticed that this translation is by Ernest Dowson and the other books shown have different translators, I wonder if and how they vary, I'll have to compare it with my Kindle edition.

I'm already behind. Catching up this weekend!

Love the Blackadder vibe! Given the slightly soft focus pic, I'm choosing to believe she has him gripped by the collars and is pulling him towards her in a forceful manner, though to be fair, it's much more likely she's pressing her hands against his chest in a much more passive stance.

The feather made me smile, remembering the Stockport Council RSE video where a man rather coyly chased a woman round the bedroom with a feather, leaving a generation of primary kids with a slight misapprehension about what the sex act actually involved.

Thanks for sharing.

It is traditional that most of us will either be lagging behind or got carried away and raced ahead. It's surprisingly tricky to read one short chapter a day.

Letter 10: The Marquise de Merteuil to the Vicomte de Valmont

• Merteuil teases Valmont that his obsession with the Madame de Tourvel is changing him. He's turning into a foolish schoolboy.
• She seems a little put out that she's not getting much attention herself from Valmont.
• She accuses him of falling in love with Tourvel.
• She thinks he should just take Madame de Tourvel rather than waiting for her to give herself to him.
• The Marquise claims that women love to be taken aggressively, since this gives them an excuse for giving in, even when it's what they wanted in the first place.
• She tells him about a romantic evening with her chevalier.
• After torturing him with suggestions that she was leaving, she arranged a series of events that left him lusting after her.
• She enjoyed watching how her words and behavior could make him crazy.
• She finally spent a steamy night with him in her bedroom; the reader gets all the details.

Letter 11: Madame de Tourvel to Madame de Volanges

• Tourvel isn't concerned about Valmont and tries to calm her friend's fears.
• He's being all gentlemanly and not at all flirty. Deceptively, of course, but Tourvel doesn't know that.
• She's so assured of his virtue that she would be OK with having him as a brother.
• To her, Valmont shows all the signs of being on a path to redemption and reform.
• We get a very clear picture of how good Valmont is at creating this persona for himself
• If you're like us, you're screaming, "Wake up, girlfriend!" right about now.

Merteuil writes a wonderfully come hither sexy letter. ‘See what you’d get from an experienced woman like me, if you weren’t pining after that silly pride? Let me describe to you in salacious detail exactly what I was wearing, as I cavorted with my current squeeze on the sofa where we had our last sexual encounter!’

The mediation on rape is chilling, especially when you bear in mind that this is a female character written by a male author.

I had to read over letter 10 a couple of times to make sure I understood that. It was chilling with its implied violence towards women and then the added dimension that it was written by a man. Not good! I take it that this is about men and women playing power games.

Letter 11. La Présidente is a ninny. I suppose Valmont is good at what he does though and knows how to impress her.

I like your book cover Brie2001 and now I'm smiling* thinking of what Bishy said about the feather! *

I am LOVING this book. The Marquise and Vimcomte are just so vile. I have really enjoyed their banter, winding each other up.

I have a lot of patience for the way characters are sometimes written, especially when historical, but I also think fictional characters don’t always need to be at all realistic for me. I sort of think writers should for the most part be able to write what they want and create the characters they want. I don’t think I shouldn’t write men because I’m not a man - the net result may well be (as mentioned here already) that I write my perception of a man from a woman rather than a convincing man perhaps.

What I’ve read so far, I’m just willing to give the benefit of the doubt and enjoy this dastardly man and woman he has created.

Alas, I will likely never make a literary critic.

@FuzzyCaoraDhubh yes, the writer's loquacious and convincing argument that a women must protest and pretend to resist so that she seems to be yielding to force. Chilling indeed. I don't think we are supposed to accept that as representative of the views of the day, as our conniving pair are so clearly self serving and immoral, but it seems plausible some men might have chosen to believe the argument.

@AgualusasLover I don't think it's in any way wrong for a woman to write a man or vice versa. I do think it slightly weakens the impact of the shock of the female character acting in a classically male way when you remember she has been invented by a man. It breaks the 4th wall for me because it reminds me that what I'm reading has been made up and it's not a real life character. But I agree he's created two most enjoyable dastardly villains.

Letter 12: Cécile de Volanges to the Marquise de Merteuil

• Cécile sends regrets that she can't attend the opera as her momma is under the weather.
• She's more sorry to miss Merteuil's company than she is the opera.
• She asks Merteuil to tell Danceny that she doesn't have the songbook he mentioned to her.

Chapter 10 - I was preoccupied with the awfulness of the "she wants it really" narrative and almost missed the elaborate game the Marquise is playing with the Chevalier. Blowing hot and cold, dressing up, reading licentious literature to get herself in the right frame of mind, and the final master stroke of telling the Chevalier he has the key, while keeping a copy in case she decides to take a different lover there. Also, telling the Vicomte he is the one she likes best but the Chevalier is the one she finds the most attractive. So much complex game playing!