Did She Fall Or Was She Pushed? Dangerous Liaisons Readalong 2024

[BishyBarnyBee]

Following a series of successful Fallen Women readalongs - War and Peace, Anna Karenina, Madame Bovary, Ruth - we continue our exploration of desire, hypocrisy, disgrace and redemption with the earlier (and even more scandalous) Dangerous Liaisons.

Widely adapted in text, film, opera and even ballet, Les Liaisons Dangereuses is an epistolatory novel comprising 175 letters.

Author Chodelos de Laclos "resolved to write a book that would be quite outside the ordinary trend, which would make a sensation and echo over the world after I left it." His book was a succès de scandale on its 1782 publication, reviewed as "diabolique" while becoming an instant bestseller. Marie Antoinette commissioned a blank cover copy for her library, and Virginia Woolf later read it with "great delight".

Readalongs are Mumsnet's best kept secret - a quiet corner of the site where we tackle the books we might not manage alone, sharing our thoughts and reactions, and encouraging each other to keep going when life - or the book - are challenging. It's fine to dip in and out as life permits, very few of us manage to keep up consistently.

We've only heard good things about DL, so do join us for a cracking good read. We start 1st May, 1 letter a day:

1 - 31 May Letters 1 - 31
1 - 30 June Letters 32 - 61
1 - 31 July Letters 62 - 92
1 - 31 August Letters 93 - 123
1- 30 September 124 - 153
1 - 22nd October 154 - 175

There are summaries of each letter at shmoop.com. I'll post them when I can, but anyone is welcome to start us off if you are first here on the day.

Looking forward to it!

Les Liaisons dangereuses (Dangerous Liaisons) Summary

Free summary and analysis of the events in Pierre Ambroise François Choderlos de Laclos's Les Liaisons dangereus...

Thanks@Tarahumara . I actually came on today to post the summaries but you beat me to it. I'm very grateful to those who have kept it going while I've been so half-arsed about catching up.

The juxtaposition of the reminder of the truly outrageous scene where Emilie is used as a desk with the horrible reality of Cecile being so innocent and so thoroughly ruined, is very striking. It reminds me of our discussions of Ruth and Tess, where part of the moral seemed to be that innocent young women need to be warned exactly why they should not be alone with young men. Because if you are "ruined" when you are seen holding hands with a man, you may have no idea what could possibly be worse than that.

At this point I'm leaning strongly toward the view that this book is a masterful combination of an amusing and well written romp which contains a serious warning for young girls. Merteuille is there as a lens to show women just how hard hearted and selfish a predatory man can be, and how a charming and persuasive facade can hide ill intent.

Thanks for the summary Tarahumara!
I missed it in the French text that Cécile had a miscarriage. I gathered she had fallen out of bed and that there had been a cover-up. Poor Cécile, she really hasn't a clue having been kept in a complete state of innocence or ignorance!

I agree that this book contains* *a very strong message to young women and their caretakers as well as serving as an insight into the lives of those in high society during those times. While I'm enjoying the intrigue, I'm finding it an uncomfortable read and not as frivolous as I had anticipated. It's fascinating though and very absorbing.

Emilie's reappearance was a clever reminder of Valmont's form and it feels like a marker of how far things have progressed; Tourvel having finally succumbed to Valmont or rather Valmont finally having imposed his will on her, really.

We have been reading the book for nearly five months now and there isn't too much longer to go.

@FuzzyCaoraDhubh We have been reading the book for nearly five months now and there isn't too much longer to go.

Not the first time a readalong has felt like a bit of a slog! If we were brave enough to do another, maybe it should be a 20th C fallen woman - I think the Mumsnet Rather Dated book group may have done the L Shaped Room recently, which would fit the bill. But then, some of the joy of the readalongs for me has been tackling the classics I would never have read on my own. It was coming across War and Peace, which I would never have opened otherwise, that got me started on the readalongs.

Hi @BishyBarnyBee yes! I have read The L-Shaped Room with that group.
It was a good one.

Definitely. I've read books on these readalongs that I would never have thought of reading, starting with War and Peace and it has been wonderful. (I did know Madame Bovary already.)

Me too! War and Peace was my first readalong on here, and I'm not sure I'd have managed it otherwise.

Letter 141: The Marquise de Merteuil to the Vicomte de Valmont

• The Marquise believes she's being deceived—that Valmont really loves Madame de Tourvel.
• At least as much as it's possible for someone like him to love anyone.
• She thinks he's projecting all these wonderful qualities onto Madame de Tourvel that she doesn't really possess.
• The Marquise seems to be jealous. Is this for real?
• She tells him a story about a man who was unable to breakup with a woman who didn't suit him.
• His friends were tired of him saying, "It's not my fault."
• A lady friend sent him a letter mocking him, a nasty fake break-up letter with each insulting sentence ending with, "It's not my fault."
• The Marquise thinks the letter might be useful to Valmont, but she doesn't tell him what happened to this other man.
• She'll tell him in her next letter, along with her ultimatum about their relationship.
• BTW, she agrees that the news about Cécile's miscarriage should be saved for after the wedding to Gercourt.
• And oh yes, sorry for your loss, Vicomte.

Letter 142: The Vicomte de Valmont to the Marquise de Merteuil

• Valmont has copied the letter and sent it to Madame de Tourvel.
• He's waiting for a reply but there's none so far.
• He's very curious about what happened to the man in the Marquise's story, as well as about this ultimatum she promises to send.

At this point I'm leaning strongly toward the view that this book is a masterful combination of an amusing and well written romp which contains a serious warning for young girls. Merteuille is there as a lens to show women just how hard hearted and selfish a predatory man can be, and how a charming and persuasive facade can hide ill intent.

I've been coming round to this perspective recently too Bishy (earlier I was getting the ick with Valmont's grooming of Cécile and finding it hideous reading). Finding myself wondering about giving the book to my DD to read as a cautionary tale!

Cécile's predicament is shocking - a cautionary tale to parents too to educate their daughters.

142 was brutal - has he really sent that letter to MdT?

I've really enjoyed these readalongs too, very glad to have read W&P, AK and this with you all - I don't think I'd ever have tackled them alone. I think I might be done with the 'fallen woman gets her comeuppance' dynamic for a while but would be up for other classics.

Yes I agree @CornishLizard. I'd be up for another readalong but not necessarily the fallen woman theme.

I would be up for another readalong, but would like a short break first!

Letters 141 and 142 are really significant ones. Merteuil is pulling the strings very tightly at this juncture.

I thought her assessment of Valmont's character was interesting; 'You are neither a lover or a friend to a woman, but always her tyrant or her slave'. This seems accurate if you think of Valmont and Merteuil's relationship where he bends to her will, rewriting that cruel letter of hers word for word and sending it off immediately to Tourvel! This relationship is the only one where Valmont does not have the upper hand. He dominates in his other relationships. While Merteuil pulls the strings, Valmont is central to the novel, being in a relationship with all three women.

Letter 143: The Présidente de Tourvel to Madame de Rosemonde

• Tourvel is, as expected, destroyed.
• She wants to be left alone to die.
• She's all cried out and asks Madame de Rosemonde not to reply to her letter.

Letter 144: The Vicomte de Valmont to the Marquise de Merteuil

• Valmont tells the Marquise that he tried to see Madame de Tourvel and was told she'd run off to the convent.
• He thought this was just a story she made up to avoid seeing him, but later finds out that she really did go to the convent.
• He toys with the idea of trying to convince her to reconcile with him; he wouldn't really want it you know, it would just be a challenge.
• He reports that Cécile has bounced back, like kids do, from her "illness."
• Cécile's illness inspires Danceny to visit her regularly. He doesn't know what happened, of course.
• Valmont prides himself on deceiving Cécile, Danceny, and (in the future) Gercourt.
• Now the Marquise just has to deliver on her promises.

Letter 145: The Marquise de Merteuil to the Vicomte de Valmont

• Laughing at him, the Marquise tells Valmont that the letter she sent him, the one he gave to Madame de Tourvel, was to manipulate him.
• Her victory wasn't over Madame de Tourvel, it was over him.
• She says he still loves her but allowed the Marquise to enjoy making him ashamed of it.
• She thinks he's stupid for have impulsively sent the letter and given up the woman he really wanted.
• It was the easiest thing in the world for her to have made him give up Madame de Tourvel.
• She saw through his scheme to lure Madame de Tourvel back on "false" pretenses. That way he could pretend to have met the Marquise's demand while still enjoying his affair with Madame de Tourvel.
• Ultimately, she couldn't care less what he does with the Presidente de Tourvel.
• The decision whether to return Cécile to Danceny or to try to get her pregnant, the Marquise leaves to Valmont, but she wants to be consulted before he makes a decision.
• She says she'll come to Paris at some indefinite time and will prove her love for Valmont despite being so unhappy with him at the moment.

Letter 146: Marquise de Merteuil to the Chevalier Danceny

• The Marquise tells Danceny she'll be in Paris tomorrow evening.
• Notice that this letter was written the same day she told Valmont she didn't know when she'd be in Paris.
• She invites Danceny to her place. But she's very coy about it. She says maybe he'd rather spend time with Cécile; after all, she's just his confidante.
• But anyway, will he please come?

Letter 147: Madame de Volanges to Madame de Rosemonde

• Madame de Tourvel has fallen seriously ill and become delirious.
• She's returned to the convent where she stayed as a girl, insisting on staying in the same room until she dies.
• She doesn't understand, as a married woman, she needs permission to stay at the convent.
• The nuns let her stay the night anyway.
• She remains quiet or paces the room, sometimes falling into the arms of Julie.
• The prioress sends for Madame de Volanges.
• Madame de Tourvel refuses any treatments they offer her. It took four people to hold her down to bleed her. (Bleeding being just about the only treatment available in those days.)
• Madame de Tourvel tells Madame de Volanges that she's dying because she didn't listen to her.

Letter 148: The Chevalier Danceny to Madame de Merteuil

• Danceny is over the moon to learn that there are feelings of love between Madame de Merteuil and himself.
• He falls all over himself flattering her and confessing his total intoxication with her.
• He'll see her this evening and hopes she'll be alone.

Thanks Tarahumara!
There is a lot going on! Valmont has walked into Merteuil's trap.
Danceny has proven to be a self-serving hypocrite and a complete numpty.

La Présidente is a broken woman.

Thanks @Tarahumara

This is getting very dark now, isn't it. I might be missing some of the nuance but I feel like Merteuil isn't coming out of this well. The wreckage is starting to pile up and she is still determined to make things worse.

I know we had the very detailed letter explaining how she came to be as she is, but I'm finding her very hard to understand at this point. Is it that no-one but her is allowed to get what they want, so if anyone has any chance of happiness, she's going to destroy it? Surely something very bad must have happened to her to make her like this? What are you all making of it?

Merteuil is not going to forgive Valmont for his perceived preference for La Présidente.
She does not play second fiddle.

Yes, Valmont is just a promiscuous airhead, whereas Merteuil is coming across as the really nasty one - vindictive and manipulative.

Letter 149: Madame de Volanges to Madame de Rosemonde

• Madame de Tourvel awakens and recognizes Madame de Volanges but she doesn't remember having come to the convent.
• She eats and enjoys some soup.
• Suddenly her memory and misery returns.
• She explains her shame and anguish to Madame de Volanges.
• Believing herself unequal to the task, Madame de Volanges suggests she call for the priest, Father Anselme.
• He visits with her.
• Afterwards, he says the Last Sacraments can be deferred because she's doing a little better.
• He says he'll return tomorrow.
• Tourvel gets agitated when a letter is sent to her and refuses to read it.
• Later, she asks to see the letter recognizes that it's from Valmont, and frantically insists they take it back.
• She was delirious and convulsing the rest of the night.
• Madame de Volanges is furious with Valmont.

Just when La Présidente thought she found a safe haven at the convent, this letter sends her over the edge. Valmont is such a creep.
I agree with Tarahumara that Merteuil is in a league all of her own and I think Bishy is right to say there is fundamentally something wrong with her. She is like the root of all evil!

I’ve caught back up - thanks Fuzzy, Tara and Bishy for all the interesting posts.

There’s something needy about Merteuil as well - not content just to cause a break between Valmont and Tourvel, she also needs to shout about what she’s done and gloat.

Catching up, and noticed something I'd not noticed on previous reads

He knows Cecile is up the duff because her periods have stopped (I think he initially says "I'm not sure yet but give me some more time to be sure"). He's with her on the night of the miscarriage specifically because Tourvel is on the blob that week: as Cecile isn't subject to that at the moment he spends the time with her instead.

Earliest mention of menstruation in fiction that I'm familiar with.

I think the key is in two paragraphs from Merteuil.

"In the time when we loved each other, for I think it was love, I was happy; and you too Vicomte!...But why trouble about a happiness which can never return?"

"Would one not say you had never made another woman happy, perfectly happy? If you doubt that, you have very little memory!"

I think the second para is an unclear translation but I believe she's never been happy since Valmont left her, and that's why she's taking a revenge on him and Tourvel.

Thank you @ViscountessMelbourne, I had missed both those points. Do you remember which number letter those last quotes are in? I think I must have glossed over that rather cryptic passage. That does indeed explain why she wants to sabotage things for Valmont.

Thank you from me too @ViscountessMelbourne
i remember noticing those lines but forgot them with all that has been going on recently. You could forget that behind the hard exterior that Merteuil presents to the world, there is a living breathing woman.

Very interesting observation about menstruation. Sometimes I miss things when reading in French especially if it's oblique or obscure. I'm not sure I would have necessarily noticed it in the English edition either however! I bought the English edition the other day for my bookshelf.

Letter 134 @CornishLizard :)

131 and then 134. I'm slightly unconvinced by the translation on the second, would be interested to hear what other people have got.

Thanks Viscountess - I have the same as you for that second quote, if you omitted the ah!: "Would one not say you had never made another woman happy, perfectly happy? Ah! If you doubt that, you have very little memory!" Are you reading Richard Aldington‘s translation?