Did She Fall Or Was She Pushed? Dangerous Liaisons Readalong 2024

[BishyBarnyBee]

Following a series of successful Fallen Women readalongs - War and Peace, Anna Karenina, Madame Bovary, Ruth - we continue our exploration of desire, hypocrisy, disgrace and redemption with the earlier (and even more scandalous) Dangerous Liaisons.

Widely adapted in text, film, opera and even ballet, Les Liaisons Dangereuses is an epistolatory novel comprising 175 letters.

Author Chodelos de Laclos "resolved to write a book that would be quite outside the ordinary trend, which would make a sensation and echo over the world after I left it." His book was a succès de scandale on its 1782 publication, reviewed as "diabolique" while becoming an instant bestseller. Marie Antoinette commissioned a blank cover copy for her library, and Virginia Woolf later read it with "great delight".

Readalongs are Mumsnet's best kept secret - a quiet corner of the site where we tackle the books we might not manage alone, sharing our thoughts and reactions, and encouraging each other to keep going when life - or the book - are challenging. It's fine to dip in and out as life permits, very few of us manage to keep up consistently.

We've only heard good things about DL, so do join us for a cracking good read. We start 1st May, 1 letter a day:

1 - 31 May Letters 1 - 31
1 - 30 June Letters 32 - 61
1 - 31 July Letters 62 - 92
1 - 31 August Letters 93 - 123
1- 30 September 124 - 153
1 - 22nd October 154 - 175

There are summaries of each letter at shmoop.com. I'll post them when I can, but anyone is welcome to start us off if you are first here on the day.

Looking forward to it!

Les Liaisons dangereuses (Dangerous Liaisons) Summary

Free summary and analysis of the events in Pierre Ambroise François Choderlos de Laclos's Les Liaisons dangereus...

Agree about that the scene in Letter 48.

There is another reference to homoerotic love in the line 'I think I love her more than Danceny...and sometimes I wish she were him' (translated). Cécile is like a blank canvass. She could easily become anything at this stage depending on who influences her.

I agree as well! The whole of letter 48 is one long double-entendre!

And Fuzzy, I also noted the homoerotic reference, which seems to have sailed right over Shmoop's head, ha.

Too true about Cecile being a blank canvas. In fact I think one of the other characters describes her like that, late in the novel.

Poor Cécile. So naive.
Poor Shmoop. Also naive :)

Laclos was passionate on the theme of women's education; he wrote an essay on it ('De l'education des femmes'). Cecile is a glaring example of the inadequacies of convent education.

Incidentally, the French word 'education' at the time meant more than education in the narrower English sense; it meant one's whole upbringing.

However, the message of Laclos' essay on the topic isn't as straightforward as 'women should be educated'; he says that because society has effectively enslaved women, it's impossible for women to receive a good education in society as it is. Quite radical really! He was inspired by Rousseau and thought that women, like all humans, are born free by nature, but society enslaves them.

😂😂You made me laugh out loud just as I finished typing my Very Serious post on women's education!

😅😅

😂Fuzzy

Letter 56: Madame de Tourvel to the Vicomte de Valmont

Tourvel finds the constant letters from Valmont tiresome.

She's a happily married woman, so why would she want to sacrifice her peace of mind just to get involved in a crazy love affair?

And she doesn't think much of his belittling the previous women in his life.

She says this letter will be her last. It's definitely over.

Letter 57: The Vicomte de Valmont to the Marquise de Merteuil

Valmont assures Danceny that an honorable love is best thing in the world.

The young man has now opened himself up completely to Valmont, so he and the Marquise can really start mucking around in Danceny and Cécile's relationship.

Valmont wants to convince Danceny that it's OK to pursue sex with Cécile, but he doesn't think the girl will give in before marriage.

And while they're at it, maybe the Marquise could grant him his reward early?

Just posted a couple of Shmoop summaries!

Poor Tourvel; her values don't really acknowledge / create a space for female sexual desire. 'If livelier pleasures exist, I have no desire for them: I do not wish to know them.' She's protesting a bit too much I think.

It's interesting that her husband is such a non-entity in the novel. It's hard to believe that she has strong feelings for him when we never encounter him at all in the letters, apart from when he's mentioned very briefly in passing.

On the other hand, her argument that she prefers mental peace to turmoil has a lot to be said for it.

I'm glad she calls Valmont out on the disrespectful way he talks about his previous mistresses.

I have been really struck reading the novel this time round on how many parallels there are between the seduction of Cecile and the seduction of Tourvel. Both women write letters instructing the men not to write to them any more (which is kind of a double-edged message, because writing to say 'don't write to me!' is still keeping the communication going). And both men use emotional blackmail, telling the women that they're responsible for male feelings.

In letter 57, Valmont shows that he (unlike Shmoop!) has picked up on the lesbian hints in Merteuil's last letter: 'No doubt it is in revenge that you are getting (Danceny's) mistress into the way of committing small infidelities to him.'

Interesting discussion by Valmont on how if you fall in love, you enjoy every step of the process so much that you're less keen to rush into having sex. And then he makes the parallel between the two seduction narratives explicit: 'In the end there is, between Danceny's behaviour towards the little Volanges and mine towards my prudish Madame de Tourvel, only a difference of degree.'

Are you falling in love, Valmont?! Good idea to end your letter with a sexual proposition to Merteuil, just so she knows you're still a proper libertine!

I know! I nearly started to like Valmont in Letter 57. I thought his thoughts on young love were very tender, showed sensitivity and he had some depth of character. And then the sign off...

La Présidente strikes me as a pillar of common sense and self sufficiency. She is happy as she is and would this man leave her alone! I wonder if this is really who she is or if she is protesting too much as you suggest, cassandre. If she did stop writing to* *him, it would put an end to it. She even says they keep going over old ground! Will we ever meet this husband of hers at some point?!

Yes, Valmont has his appealing moments! I would say that he's a bit softer than Merteuil...

I think Tourvel's life is tranquil but boring. She tries hard to repress her own attraction to Valmont, but she really is attracted to him against her better judgement (remember the Dijon letter, taped together again and stained with tears). Some of her letters come across as an exercise in self-deception; I mean, really, does she have Valmont followed as part of her campaign to convert him, or is rather that she's already attracted to him and hasn't admitted it to herself yet? In some letters we see characters trying to deceive other characters, but in some letters we see characters trying to deceive themselves, and I suspect that's the case with Tourvel.

She WOULD be happier staying as she is, but I don't think there's any real passion in her marriage. It's an arranged marriage, like almost all marriages of the time.

I had forgotten about the tear-stained letter! She does put up a convincing front!
And maybe if she says (or writes!) it often enough, it might be true ;)

Yeah, fake it till you make it! 😁

😅 oh and Merteuil is as hard as nails!

I'm positive that Tourvel fancies the breeches off Valmont from the start. There's a bit earlier where she says that it's unsurprising that so many other, weaker women fall for his charms because he's so dishy. Then a bit when she says he's only courting her because there's no one else in the countryside because she's not attractive enough for him. The biggest giveaway is when she's depressed after he leaves and says to Mme de Volanges that she's very sad on behalf of Valmont's poor elderly aunt who is missing his "agreeable society".

"I was really hurt by the grief of my respectable friend; it touched me so much that I would gladly have mingled my tears with hers." Life obviously seems greyer without him - we've all been there.

We never hear her real thoughts, and it's not clear whether or at what point she even acknowledges her feelings to herself.

Very true. It's reading between the lines really :)

I feel so brutal referring to Tourvel by her surname, but I guess we only ever learn the first names of Cecile, Sophie and the servants.

Letter 58: The Vicomte de Valmont to the Madame de Tourvel

1. Not to be discouraged so easily, Valmont explains to his beloved why he can't help writing to her of his love: he's just being honest and true to who he is.
2. If she could just stop being afraid of him, she'd see how good things could be.
3. He wants nothing else in life except to make her happy. How can she refuse him?
4. Uh-huh.

Thanks @cassandre for posting the summaries, and thanks everyone for your great comments. I had a busy few days and it was great to return to the thread and see how it had moved on.

So perhaps La Presidente, in her placid marriage with an absent husband, is as ignorant the power of sexual desire as an uneducated convent girl? She has no idea of the nature of the fire she is playing with here.

'In the end there is, between Danceny's behaviour towards the little Volanges and mine towards my prudish Madame de Tourvel, only a difference of degree.'
We'd seen earlier that Danceny's pursuit of Cecile is as manipulative as Valmont's pursuit of La Presidente, and now Valmont spells it out for us. Is de Laclos saying that all men are essentially predatory?

@ViscountessMelbourne , well spotted on those details showing that Tourvel isn't oblivious to Valmont's charms!

We never hear her real thoughts, and it's not clear whether or at what point she even acknowledges her feelings to herself. That's so true. I think that while some members of society conform to the traditional norms of virtue mostly for convention's sake (eg Mme de Volanges), Tourvel has internalised them, and really wants to be virtuous because she believes it's the ethical thing to do. Which is why she tries so hard to repress her feelings for Valmont.

I didn't think twice about referring to Tourvel by her surname, but maybe I should have done! I've read some lit crit on Laclos, and I think critics usually refer to her more formally as Mme de Tourvel.

Btw, I googled your username, and the Viscountess Melbourne sounds like a fascinating character! And an 18th c. heroine as well.

Thanks @BishyBarnyBee for all the summaries you've posted so far. Interesting question about whether Laclos is suggesting that all men are essentially predatory. Now that you mention it, are there any really decent men in this novel? Hmm. Something to bear in mind...

I would say though that everyone in this novel (not just the men) is somehow entangled in society's web of complicity and corruption: the network of dangerous relationships. It would be difficult (impossible?) for any particular person to lay claim to the moral high ground. Which is partly why it's so clever that Laclos makes us feel complicit as well. Reading the novel, we are drawn into the perspective of the libertines (to at least some extent); it's hard not to admire their wit and daring.

@AgualusasLover , I think you said that Viv Groskop makes that point in Au Revoir Tristesse, and I agree entirely. I've read that book too by the way and agree that the Laclos chapter was particularly good!

I'd been reading up on my namesake shortly before this thread started, so I thought I'd name change in honour of her notorious resemblance to the Marquise de Merteuil.

I personally identify more with her daughter Emily Cowper (known to Georgette Heyer fans as a Patroness of Almacks) who apparently was so chronically late to everything that "she'd never heard of soup".

That's brilliant, I love it 😂

I'm also chronically late. I'm actually starting to think I might have ADD, even though I know that's a huge cliche...

So of course I had to google Viscountess Melbourne.

"She was noted for discretion in her affairs: she famously remarked that no man was safe with another's secrets and no woman with her own...Lady Melbourne had a clear understanding of what society would and would not condone. "

Very Madame de Merteuil!

Excellent user name and yes, excellent daughter. @ViscountessMelbourne, am I right in thinking this may not be your first intriguing but slightly obscure literary reference? Remind me your previous user name for these threads?

Letter 59: The Vicomte de Valmont to the Marquise de Merteuil

1. Puzzled by the next letter (enclosed with this one), Valmont asks the Marquise what in the world has lit a fire under Danceny. He got a desperate letter from him.
2. Valmont will be meeting with him later that day to find out what happened.