post your unpopular literature opinions?

[MrShannon385]

Curly was the best character in mice an men

Sally Rooney's books are eye rollingly immature with very little substance and depth.

Agree. I couldn’t work out whether I was the wrong generation to be reading them or they were just really awful

Not read anything by Sally Rooney and have no intention of doing so.
They sound awful.

I tried to read Normal People but I didn't care about the normal people...I watched it during lockdown to admire the scenery 😉 I liked early Kate Atkinson but nothing recently.

It’s very fashionable to denigrate her, so you’re in good company! (Colleagues who teach her work on a contemporary writing module say their undergraduates also think she’s a bit fuddy-duddy.)

I think I’m probably being more unpopular when I say I rather like Conversations With Friends, though less keen on Normal People, and the email correspondence in Beautiful World!

It was a lovely-looking adaptation, wasn’t it? There was a scene where Connell was driving along a rural road that I loved! (On the other hand, I was disappointed by the Italian villa, which I’d expected to be far more beautiful!)

I was put off by seeing an interview with her - a dreary, humourless Marxist. She actually said “I don’t believe in the individual; only the collective good matters.” Tells me all I need to know about her.

Certain writers get way too much praise. The literary establishment loves Sally Rooney and Zadie Smith, and they over-promote them.

I read the Narnia books recently. God, the prose is sublime! But I don’t know many young people today who’d be capable of reading them, frankly. Maybe the standard was higher when Lewis wrote them. Same goes for Wind in the Willows.

@StrangePaintName , I'm not denigrating her. I've not read any of her books or seen the film or tv series. I think I opened Normal People and read a few paragraphs and it didn't look like my sort of book.

I got the impression that it was one of those books where nothing really happens.

@JaneyGee even Charlotte Sometimes which is quite a strange little book has something about it that I don’t think I’ve saw captured in modern fiction . A sort of eeriness .

I completely agree @JaneyGee and Wind in the Willows is an all time favourite of mine.

@StrangePaintName I didn't realise it was fashionable to dislike Sally Rooney's novels. My impression was quite the opposite. I genuinely don't understand all the hype and thought it had just become a fashionable thing to be seen reading her books on Instagram as they are the 'in' thing.

@oddgirl I felt exactly the same. Maybe it's a generational thing as I just didn't get it. If it's supposed to capture a younger generation I despair tbh as all the characters have such little insight. I wasn't sure if that was meant to be the point, but either way to be lauded as the writer of her generation left me feeling a bit sad and underwhelmed.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow take P&P since it's the most famous. Darcy overcomes his 'pride' and falls in love with (the much less eligible) Elizabeth because she shows him his actions affect others and he needs to be less arrogant. Elizabeth overcomes her 'prejudice' and falls in love with (the rich and hot) Darcy because, well, he's nice to her now.

You said that all Austen novels had this plot, and you can only quote one example. I mean, nice try fronting it out by pretending you're picking P&P as the 'most famous example', but this isn't remotely the plot of any of the others, is it?

And, with P&P you could just as easily say that Darcey tames Elizabeth, by showing her that she is wrong to judge from initial appearances. And Darcey was never troubled was he? - he was very happy, charging about, insulting the daughters of the upper middle class.

Would you like me to go through every one of her novels? I think I’ve made my point about the fantasy aspect (nothing wrong with a romance and a wedding btw - but I stand by my unpopular opinion!)

And, with P&P you could just as easily say that Darcey tames Elizabeth, by showing her that she is wrong to judge from initial appearances

I agree they both made alterations on reflection @MissLucyEyelesbarrow

I’m not sure it’s a case of either of them taming each other? In the historical/societal context they are respectively a proud but generous, upstanding man and a spirited, intelligent strong woman who tends to judge on the spur of the moment (prejudiced is a bit outdated because she didn’t decide to hate him before she met him). They both acquire feelings of affection for the other and on reflection, with new information in EB’s case, make a love match. To be honest, and this does not reflect my feelings of how women should be today, but EB always comes across as a bit self-centred - loveless society marriages were the norm at the time and by refusing Darcy because he seems to be up himself, she’s throwing her family under the bus. I think Self-Absorption and Self-Centredness wold be a better title.

EB always comes across as a bit self-centred - loveless society marriages were the norm at the time and by refusing Darcy because he seems to be up himself, she’s throwing her family under the bus. I think Self-Absorption and Self-Centredness wold be a better title.

Do you think so? I admired her strong principles. Her father was of the same mind (though not the most pragmatic man) regarding her marriage proposals.

A few years down the line, with no prospects (just for example) of any of her sisters marrying, I wonder if she might have struggled more to refuse Collins or Darcy. Though I often wonder if the more passive Jane might have been pushed accepting Collins had Bingley not been in the picture.

I'm enjoying the P and P discussion!

To be fair, I’ve always had more difficulty understanding her first refusal of Darcy - bit stuck-up but might unbend a bit and would also solve her and her family’s problems and probably at least be constrained by society manners, no evidence of other huge red flags - than that of Collins - an ignorant and boring oaf who would drive her to distraction and condescends despite being out of her league. I admire her independence and strong-mindedness but in her place it was quite a selfish decision. Her family needed to marry off their daughters and quite apart from anything else if she’d waited a huge amount longer she’d have been on the shelf and doing herself a disservice. Women with the resources and freedom to insist on living their “best life” were pretty thin on the ground then.

I’d also like to caveat that I’m not sure EB and Darcy would have had a happily ever after. Two strong, intelligent personalities cramped inside the stricture of a Georgian marriage, with personality traits that have already caused friction in their relationship? I think that’s probably not a good sign.

I also agree re Jane - several of Austen’s books, most notably Sense and Sensibility, seem to paint that sort of decision in a favourable light, it’s like taking one for the team. So Elinor soldiers on without a word after Edward’s desertion, Lydia is painted as a hysterical idiot for making a bad match and later punished by karma etc.

It's getting like my book group in here.

Any more unpopular opinions?

This was one of my favourite childhood books ever and remains so. Beautiful, haunting novel.

Marriage was pragmatic but I think it was accepted that some affection was desirable between the couple. Austen told her niece not to marry without affection, and she herself turned down a very favourable match that would have secured her family's future. So while marriage was basically a woman's career it had a better chance of success if the couple liked and respected each other. If you married a wrong 'un you were doomed, you belonged to your husband and were completely at his mercy. Elizabeth Bennet was quite right to refuse to enter into marriages that she was convinced wouldn't work.

All good points.

Mine is that most literary fiction is unreadable, self -indulgent shite.