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Jane Austen

219 replies

BaconAndAvocado · 13/10/2023 11:34

Currently listening to a Radio 4 adaptation of Sense and Sensibility and loving it.
I’ve read and enjoyed Pride and Prejudice and Emma.

What are the others like?

OP posts:
Fink · 16/10/2023 20:28

maltravers · 16/10/2023 20:02

You win!

Ha ha. I do have the sort of memory that stores JA quotes and forgets basic life skills.

NineteenOhEight · 16/10/2023 20:37

EmpressaurusOfCats · 16/10/2023 14:34

Just finished Mansfield Revisited, thanks for the recommendations!

Yes, I enjoyed it - although the ending became obvious very quickly. Interesting that one character talked about it being a sin for a woman to marry a man she didn’t love. That feels as if it must have been very much a luxury belief in those days, when women’s options were so limited. I’d like to have seen her argue it out with Charlotte Collins.

I think that’s JA taking on the earlier JA’s more apparent religious ideas in her later work, Fanny approving of family services at Sotherton, Edmund not intending to be an absentee priest, employing a curate to do his parish work, living among his flock to give counsel etc. Her ideas about marriage are always a combination of Eros and economics — she’s absolutely against ‘love in a cottage’ where there’s not enough money to sustain the couple. For her, love isn’t enough. Better to be Charlotte, sensible, not in love, but married to a modestly prosperous man with good prospects. I think Emma is speaking for Austen, too, when she says she has no inducement to marry, as she lacks neither consequence nor money — she would need to be in love, and she doesn’t think that’s likely.

I don’t think Lizzy or Jane would think it was ‘sinful’ to marry a man you didn’t love, for instance.

NineteenOhEight · 16/10/2023 20:38

Fink · 16/10/2023 20:28

Ha ha. I do have the sort of memory that stores JA quotes and forgets basic life skills.

Show quote history

Can you remember the only reference to shit in JA?

HonoriaLucastaDelagardie · 16/10/2023 21:48

I remember the director of the 2005 P&P saying that he deliberately skated over the Lydia and Wickham bit because a modern audience just wouldn't understand what was so awful about it.

I think Lydia being only sixteen, while Wickham must be in his twenties, would at least be strongly disapproved of by modern audiences.

And it's what finally brings Lizzie and Darcy together; how do you make that make sense if you skate over Lydia and Wickham?

AnneShirleysNewDress · 16/10/2023 21:59

Persuasion and Pride & Prejudice are my favourites. I never tire of them. In terms of adaptations, I'll stick my head above the parapit to say I prefer Matthew Macfayden as Darcy although I know I'm in the minority.

Mirabai · 16/10/2023 22:06

Good God, not old potato face. I don’t like him in Succession either.

RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie · 16/10/2023 22:17

Mirabai · 16/10/2023 22:06

Good God, not old potato face. I don’t like him in Succession either.

Who is potato face? Matthew M? A rather attractive potato then. Incidentally, I always think of Colin F as pudding face.

Fink · 16/10/2023 22:24

HonoriaLucastaDelagardie · 16/10/2023 21:48

I remember the director of the 2005 P&P saying that he deliberately skated over the Lydia and Wickham bit because a modern audience just wouldn't understand what was so awful about it.

I think Lydia being only sixteen, while Wickham must be in his twenties, would at least be strongly disapproved of by modern audiences.

And it's what finally brings Lizzie and Darcy together; how do you make that make sense if you skate over Lydia and Wickham?

It is in the film, just not dwelt on. It's not the film version which would win any prizes for being either the closest to the book or the most historically accurate anyway.

Fink · 16/10/2023 22:27

NineteenOhEight · 16/10/2023 20:38

Can you remember the only reference to shit in JA?

Show quote history

I spent ages trying to think if the actual word shit had crept in anywhere. Not that I can recall so I think it must be the dung cart in Persuasion. Is that right?

Mirabai · 16/10/2023 22:28

RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie · 16/10/2023 22:17

Who is potato face? Matthew M? A rather attractive potato then. Incidentally, I always think of Colin F as pudding face.

Show quote history

Yes MM. I agree re Colin Firth. When I heard he was cast in P&P I genuinely thought he would be Mr Bingley. 🤣

Fifthtimelucky · 16/10/2023 22:48

JaneyGee · 14/10/2023 14:51

The critics seem to think Persuasion is her masterpiece. (Harold Bloom thought so.) But I think most fans love Pride and Prejudice more. Lizzie Bennet is just so unbelievably vivid and real. I can’t think of any other character in literature who seems so alive. I remember an old literature professor at university who once said, “I’ve been in love with Lizzie Bennet all my life.” Bless him.

It’s funny, but the critics have a similar take on Dickens. Harold Bloom (and others) rate Bleak House as his masterpiece. But deep down most people love David Copperfield more.

I'm no critic, but I agree that Persuasion is the best (and that Bleak House is the best Dickens). I studied both for A level in 1979 and have ready them both several times since.

I love all Austen novels, even including Mansfield Park. It's no good viewing Fanny, Edmund and the Crawfords through modern eyes. My least favourite used to be Northanger Abbey but is now probably Emma.

AnneShirleysNewDress · 16/10/2023 23:02

Mirabai · 16/10/2023 22:06

Good God, not old potato face. I don’t like him in Succession either.

I do love an exemplary potato (and men called Matthew).

maltravers · 16/10/2023 23:56

I’ve never really taken to Emma (she’s self satisfied and hard to care for) or Northanger Abbey. I love all the other main books though. I might have to read Lady Susan again, I don’t think I’ve read that for 40 years.

maltravers · 16/10/2023 23:59

As for Old Potato Face, I always found him rather handsome, although I must admit that impression took a bit of a hit when he played John Stonehouse .

Mirabai · 17/10/2023 00:08

I don’t think being smug makes her unsympathetic - she gets her mortification - that’s the comedy.

ManAboutTown · 17/10/2023 10:51

HonoriaLucastaDelagardie · 16/10/2023 21:48

I remember the director of the 2005 P&P saying that he deliberately skated over the Lydia and Wickham bit because a modern audience just wouldn't understand what was so awful about it.

I think Lydia being only sixteen, while Wickham must be in his twenties, would at least be strongly disapproved of by modern audiences.

And it's what finally brings Lizzie and Darcy together; how do you make that make sense if you skate over Lydia and Wickham?

I've always thought Lydia and Wickham are two of the most important characters in P & P. Lydia is flighty and headstrong and Wickham is a self centred opportunist.

The provide a stark contrast to the much more serious and grounded relationships between Bingley and Jane and Darcy and Lizzie

Also thought the senior Bennets important - Mrs Bennet is a desperate social climber while Mr Bennet is a genial, though rather distracted, father who tolerates his wifes foibles and genuinely seems to want the best for his daughters without wanting to put himself out too much

Much of the power in the book comes from these relationships

GoFaster83 · 17/10/2023 12:27

Could anyone remind me of the name of a short story she wrote as a very young writer? It's very funny/sarcastic. I happened upon it while buying texts at uni and it made me smile. Long since gone to the charity shop and I'd love to read it again

GoFaster83 · 17/10/2023 12:38

Borderline thinking I dreamt this book. Nothing is coming up via online searches at all.

EmpressaurusOfCats · 17/10/2023 13:04

I think I know the one you mean. I’ve got a cat on top of me at the moment but when I can I’ll go check my bookcase.

GoFaster83 · 17/10/2023 13:06

Jane austen and a cat! You're living my dream life!

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 17/10/2023 18:29

Although Anne Elliot lumping in travelling on a Sunday with screwing over a sick widow in the list of Mr Elliot's crimes always makes me laugh.

General observance of the Sabbath was expected in Austen's time (and afterwards - Trollope's Mrs Proudie was very big on no Sunday travelling). There was a general understanding that Sundays were to be devoted to the moral and spiritual notion of rest by the laying by of typical “work” and devotion of body and mind to worship and acts of mercy, devotion, and charity (as well as giving the servants a bit of a day off to do the same). Elliott's Sunday travelling when there's no compelling need is a desire to flout conventional behaviour expected of a gentleman and shows he's inconsiderate of others (like his coachman and the servants at the inns where he calls during this Sunday travelling). JA's establishing a pattern of behaviour here - it looks petty to the 21c but a man who would flout long-established religious convention like that would see nothing wrong in defrauding a sick widow.

CesareBorgia · 17/10/2023 18:39

To appreciate the books, you have to adopt the mindset of the times while you read, at least, I think so. It's one of my pet hates when film versions force modern ideas into the stories - e.g. the awful Mansfield Park with Billie Piper -. the whole point of Fanny was that she remained meek and mild whilst sticking to firm moral principles - she would never have harangued her benefactors.