The wrong era names....gaargh

[Mortgageportgage]

I'm reading a book set in the present time. The young teenagers are called Andrea and Janet. It's so confusing as I keep thinking these are the mothers not the daughters. I'm 40 and don't know a Janet or Andrea my age, let alone 25 years younger. Why do authors do this?

In my DM’s family is is traditional for first born daughters to have a certain first name.
I have the same name as my female relatives going back at least as far as the 18th century.
I have an aunty and cousin living locally, can cause a bit of confusion at family gatherings. 😁

Big family disappointment when I revealed DD’s name.
Never would I have burdened my DD with it.

It's usually spelt Conall and pronounced Cun-el (emphasis on first syllable) where I am in Ireland. It's a very old Irish first name and the surname that derived from it was anglicised as O'Connell. This is a common surname, but I don't think Connell was really used as a first name within Ireland? Until Normal People anyway. But I agree with @EarringsandLipstick, it's not wrong, just choice.

@SecretVictoria It is :)

I've just checked the Irish 1911 Census, and there were 356 Connells. Looking at one hundred at a time, all the ones on the first page were in Co Donegal, aged between 104 and 1! So it isn't all that unlikely, knowing the way names get re-used through the generations.

The census is my go-to for historic names - endlessly fascinating to see the regional and religious variations.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/

Just sneaked another look - the second hundred Connells were all in Donegal as well, and a fair chunk of the third hundred - so safe to say it was regional.

That's really interesting, thanks very much @DeanElderberry . I hadn't realised Connell was so widely used in Donegal, I'm very far south. But then Donegal is Tír Chonaill after all, so it's not surprising.

One thing - some people used the English form of their name on birth certs/ the census, but might have used an Irish form at home etc. For example, I previously noticed a family who filled in the 1901 census using English forms of their names, but used Irish versions in the 1911 one. They lived in an area that is still a Gaeltacht today so probably used the Irish forms locally? I've also searched a couple of areas I know to be the heart of the Kerry Gaeltacht even today and found the majority (maybe 65 - 75 %) used English forms of their names in the 1911 census, even though they most likely spoke Irish usually.
Similarly if you search the 1911 census there are a couple of hundred thousand Johns, but 151 Seans listed. But some of those christened John used Seán day to day, most especially in areas where Irish was spoken.

So all that is a very roundabout way of wondering if some of the Connells listed in 1911 were Conalls too, especially as Donegal was a region where the Irish language was strong?

It's possible - most of them state they speak Irish and English, though there are some English-only Connells as well. 11 Conalls, so it seems to have been a minority spelling - and also most of those seem to be exclusive Irish speakers who filled out the census returns in Irish.

The whole question of using English and Irish versions of names is interesting and confusing, since the same Irish name can have several different common English versions.

There are just over 1,000 Seaghans, which seems to have been favoured over Sean at that date - it will be really interesting to see has that changed in the 1926 census.

The census is such a fantastic resource - I love the regionality - I remember going hunting for Anoras and Bedelias, both names in my mother's Mayo family and finding a distinct geographic bias.

@DeanElderberry Love looking at the census too😊Never came across a Bedelia I must say. Hanora (that form) seemed to be used a lot in my locality in the late 19th century.

I had forgotten to check the Seaghán stats! I'm not sure either when Seán became the more widely used version. Just thinking of people like Seán O'Casey, or Lemass etc, that version of the name does seem to have been used early 20th century too (both of them would have been born John though). Jack was also widely used as a form of John of course.

But it's interesting if you go back and check the 1901 census, there are far fewer Seagháns then, only 14, (and no Seán) which is the sort of thing I was alluding to upthread. Of course some will have been born in the intervening period, some will have just changed their name to the Irish form owing to outside influences (political etc), but I think some too will have just started recording the Irish name they actually used, rather than the English counterpart. If you compare Gaeltacht areas especially in the 1901 census versus the 1911 census you can see this happening.

For example, there are 39 women named Máire listed in 1901, 3 are in Kerry. By 1911 there are 134 listed for Kerry alone (mostly in Gaeltacht areas). About three quarters of these women were alive for the previous census. Given that they lived in Irish-speaking areas, I'm guessing many of these women were always known as Máire, but were 'hiding' under their English names in previous official records.

Bridget = Biddy = Bid = Bedelia - hence Dilly/Dillie as a short/pet form of Bridget, with Delia as the more formal (and much more frequently used) version.

Yes, as you say, by the late 19th century Hanora was standard, and by the early 20th c they had mostly become Norah and Noras and Noreens.

Kelly in Coronation Street used to annoy me. As if there would be an 18 year old called Kelly!!!

My 12 year old has a friend at school called Keeley. Every time she mentions her I inwardly giggle. The 80s called - they want their name back!

Thank you, I never knew that.

Her books are absolute dog shit. Her writing style is terrible with the occasional East London word thrown in 'split arse' for example.

Whose books, @GiddyGladys ?

Haven’t RTFT but I’m going to guess Martina Cole for this one.

Here is a thing you might all like. The name Fiona is entirely made up. People assume it’s an old Scottish name but there is no record of it from before 1890.
It was created by a poet who used it as a non de plume. The poetry was hugely popular and so the name was used.

https://www.theallusionist.org/allusionist/fiona1

I do have to say it's a strange thing to be thrown out of an otherwise good book for! Particularly by a mumsnetter, where it's perfectly OK to call your child Percy or Prudence in 2023!

Ian Rankin - no child born in 1997 was called Annette. That’s almost my peer group. They are called Laura, Lauren, Abigail, Katie, Rebecca.

Grace was a name I considered for DD born in 1980. It wasn't a common name (neither was the name I called her although it is now). I have a friend with a daughter the same age called Tilly. I don't think it's that strange.

The only Janets I know are in their 60s.

I was at schoolwoth a Janet (now 51) - it seemed old-fashioned, even then. I assumed she was named after her grandmother or someone, though I never asked. We had a couple of Jeanettes, though.

I suspect her parents heritage is important on this one

It does my head in that one of the adult characters (Effie) in Murdoch Mysteries is Fiona. Ca 1905, so born maybe 1875 - NO! otoh, Jordan for a girl child, though unlikely, is possible in that Canadian Protestant family-surnames-used-as-personal names milieu.

That said, there is a 57 year old Fiona in the Irish 1911 census - but it is always possible that a romantically-minded person changed her name. Or maybe there really was one before MacCleod.

There are four other Fionas listed in it, all under 7, and nine Jordans aged from 5 to 26.

I suppose fretting about anachronism in Murdoch Mysteries is the road to madness.

Parent's heritage is interesting - I've noticed quite a few infant Patricias in the baptism lists in the church newsletter in Ireland, with Eastern European surnames.

Patricia is another of those tricky ones - invented by the British royal family (who also invented 'Victoria'), it took quite a while to become generally used.

I think Frank Lampard's youngest child is called Patricia and she's about 4. The youngest Patricia I know is someone at work in her late 40s but she's Trish. I can't imagine any younger women with the name calling themselves Pat.

Re Effie

Effie Gray https://g.co/kgs/npxnW4

Sorry, was it Fiona that was the issue?