War and Peace readalong thread 2022 - thread 3

[VikingNorthUtsire]

Welcome to the third thread. Please see the OP in threads 1 or 2 for the full info.on the readalong, links to different editions and translations, blog posts, etc.

I think most of us are established now so for this post I'll just re-shsre the reading schedule

Different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Thanks Desdemona

Tolstoy envisioned a trilogy that centered on the attempted overthrow of Tsar Nicolas I by a group of military officers who became known as The Decembrists......Tolstoy saw the uprising as a seminal moment in Russian history—a turning point in the nation’s history when Western ideals clashed with traditionally Russian ideals.

A lot of the stuff about Natasha and the national character makes more sense seen through this.... I know that's been a theme throughout but it definitely helps me to understand it better.

OK, so I think we need to do an official vote for next year's readalong!

The contenders I believe are:
Les Miserables
Vanity Fair
Dostoyevsky (Crime and Punishment or The Brothers Karamazov)
George Eliot multi-book
Don Quixote
Ulysses
The Three Musketeers

Any others I've forgotten? Do you think 1 vote each or 2/3 votes? Maybe a negative vote too??

Just catching up. I’m still very far behind and only at Denisov and Dolokhov and the guerilla warfare. I did have to take a moment to stare at the wall in silence when Petya died, even though I knew it was coming.

I’m 100% committed to not reading epilogue 2. 😀 I’ve read it once, that is more than enough.

I don’t mind how the voting is managed, excited to see Dumas on the list, though I am steadily working my way through the D’Artagnan Romances and am on no.3.

I think what really helped with W&P and the same with Anna Karenina is that the chapters are short. Musketeer chapters are often 40 mins - but they are insanely bonkers, fun minutes.

Oh, meant to say. Thank you @piggy for all the organisation this year, @DesdamonasHandkerchief for all the updates and everyone for stepping in, sharing and genuinely making this a fun corner of the internet.

p.p.s. The failed reforms of Alexander and the assassination are some of the seeds that led to revolution in 1917. But it is the reason the next Tsar took a firmer, more traditional line which in turn was passed onto Nicholas, who wasn’t especially well placed to take over and made decisions because he was the Tsar rather than in the interest of Russia.

Anna Karenina has similar themes around the western looking vs Slavophile view of Russia with Karenin and Vronsky representing opposing places in society.

Reading this again, really reignited my love of Russian history. Orlando Figes recently wrote a book called The Story of Russia - he isn’t the only or the best historian of Russian history, but he is very readable and is often influenced by literature and the arts in his historical analysis. I haven’t read this one, but have read his other stuff and been taught by him, and he is as good a place as any to fill in the history.

Phew... got to the end of Epilogue 1 just in time for the original pause from Vikings timeline 😄

A lot of what I think has already been expressed but I'm really pleased this epilogue exists and it feels like it brings the story to a close much better than the actual novel!

Sad for Sonya and don't understand Marya's clear hatred for her - other than the fact she knew of Nikolays teenage infatuation and holds it against her? I'm not sure as N&M are obviously a love match (although not sure I see much that is lovable about older, 'wiser' Nikolay - I much preferred the young, impetuous hussar!)

Also not sure about Natasha and Pierre as again, portrayed as a love match but other than when Tolstoy explicitly writes it out, there doesn't seem much affection between the two of them. But what do I know - my one and July marriage crashed and burned in less than three years 😆) I liked that there was a baby Petya in the family again!

I was so sad to hear of the old Counts demise - and also how the Countess basically lost her mind after her double loss. Its 'nice' that her family understand her, even if they all completely patronise her.

And poor Nikolay junior - that final part where he has the dream of his father who he can't remember and is so desperate to please... heartbreaking! I'm glad he has Pierre...

Right - onto Epilogue 2 and then that's War & Peace read! Such a treat reading either you so to Tarahumara's list.. I'm up for Les Mis (although can see not everyone is so happy to pass), either of Dostoyevsky, Don Quixote or Ulysses.. all strike me as classics I should've read so will go with the majority view!

I've just finished the first epilogue and agree with a lot that's already been written, especially about poor old Sonya! I guess she's better off than the peasants though. Not looking forward to the second epilogue.

Thank you to everyone for the organisation, the summaries, the discussion. I've really enjoyed it, even if I haven't contributed much to the discussion! I won't vote as I quite fancy some Dickens so might jump threads next year. 😉Depending on the choice I could try both I suppose. I agree that relatively chapters is the way forward!

Ok, so maybe instead of a particular number of votes we just each say which ones we'd be up for (and which ones not).

I quite liked the opening of Epilogue 2 - how at that time, belief and faith was being overwritten with Science. I wonder what Tolstoy would make of our world of 'alternative facts' these days?

I’m going for Les Mis, Dostoyevsky, Don Quixote, Ulysses or The Three Musketeers on the grounds that I’ve read Vanity Fair and a lot of George Eliot.

Thanks for your kind comments, IsFuzzy! Your insights have kept us going all year, even when the thread occasionally turned quiet.

Tarahumara, I think a poll (of whatever type) is a great idea. My top picks would be George Eliot (I love her!), Dostoevsky and Don Quixote. Dumas would also be fun; I’ve never read any Dumas. To tell the truth though I’d be up for any of the books on that list.

SanFranBear said, I liked that there was a baby Petya in the family again!
I agree! And a mini Natasha. And of course a mini Andrei in the form of Nikolenka. To be honest it reminded me a little of the end of the Harry Potter series, when we get a brief glimpse of all the surviving characters married off and the next generation heading off to Hogwarts 😁

I finished Epilogue 2 and the appendix, so am now an expert on historical causality, power, necessity and freedom. (LOL no!)

I mostly just let the prose wash over me without trying too hard to analyse it, but I liked the image of the ‘cone’ in Ch. 7: the idea that the military people at the top of the cone have the most power to give orders, but participate least in direct action, whereas conversely, the people at the bottom who have the least power end up doing all the hard work. This seems to me very true of modern warfare as well. I think of Putin giving orders and young Russian soldiers dying. 😥

I found the appendix much more accessible than Epilogue 2. I liked this quote in particular, where Tolstoy talks about the historical period his work depicts, and defends himself against critics who think he doesn’t adequately portray the brutality of it:
Studying letters, diaries, legends, I did not find all the horrors of that brutality in a greater degree than I find them now or at any other time. In those times, too, people loved, envied, sought truth, virtue, were carried away by passions; there was the same complex mental and moral life, sometimes even more refined than now, among the upper classes.

OK, that last bit shows some class prejudice, but in general, I completely agree with Tolstoy that it is a mistake to perceive earlier eras in history as more barbaric/violent/brutal than our own. In my own era, we have nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction, and huge global inequality. And on the positive side, human life is always enormously complex and interesting, no matter which period of history or which culture you look at.

I also admire how hybrid War and Peace is in terms of genre. Traditionally in Western literature, the epic is the story of a nation or people, while the novel (or earlier, the medieval romance) tells the story of individuals. War and Peace does both. The hybrid genre is a way of reinforcing Tolstoy’s point that history isn’t just about rulers and great men (I’m drawing on Gradesaver and Schmoop here, ha!), but also about the lives of ordinary people.

I didn’t have an appendix in my copy - it just stopped after epilogue 2.

Argh, thanks Chessie, I’m being daft as I wasn’t paying attention to what the appendix actually was. In the Pevear/Volokhonsky translation of the book, it just follows on after the epilogues, so I assumed it was standard to include it with the novel, but now I realise it’s just a quirk of my particular translation. It’s called ‘A Few Words Apropos of the Book War and Peace’ and (now that I’ve checked) I can see it was published in March 1868 in the journal Russian Archive, when some installments of the novel had already been published but not all. So it’s not part of the actual novel. Sorry! It’s an interesting short article though, and a lot more readable than the epilogues.

I’ve just remembered that I haven’t seen the 2016 BBC War and Peace series yet. Must watch it over Christmas!

Any more votes on what we should read next year? What’s your choice, Tarahumara? Desdamona? Viking?

I know I said I didn’t want to read Les Miz again, but the fact it has 365 short chapters does make it an excellent year-long read.

I would like to vote for Les Mis, but will go along with the choice of the majority :)* *

My official vote, in order of preference.

Les Mis
Don Quixote
Any Dostoyevsky

I love Dumas and Eliot but happily read those anyway.

I've read Les Mis, and probably wouldn't read it again, but agree it would be an excellent read along choice with such a convenient number of chapters.

My choices would be either Vanity Fair or Anna Karenina, as they're both on my TBR list, but I think they've both been rejected for being too much Tolstoy after W&P (and I certainly get that!) and too short in VF's case. So I would say go with the majority vote and I'll join in if it appeals 😊

I voted already :-) but have absolutely no problem with reading Anna Karenina again. I read it a chapter a day in 2021 and it was a great way to appreciate the farming chapters more than I had previously.

I would be fine with Anna K. For some reason, autocorrect wants to put 'Anna Karen inappropriate' instead of the title. What's this about then?! 😄

I would also be up for Anna K!

Anna Karenina added to the list! I think I'd vote for Les Mis, Dostoyevsky, Don Quixote, Dumas or Anna K.

Finished!!! Oof. That second epilogue was a bit of a slog.

Thank you all for a fantastic read along! I've lagged way behind and I feel I'm on one of the Cossack wagons outside Moscow unaware that the French have left. I've made it to the penultimate chapter and I agree that grown up Nikolai is much less appealing than the young hussar.
Thanks again and merry Christmas to all.

It's great that a next book is being proposed!
It might be interesting to read Les Mis as a comparison/companion from the 'enemy' side of W&P - also interestingly, both novels were published in the 1860s but dealt with events from 40 or more years before. I believe the time lines of both novels overlap though Les Mis would be slightly later (this is all from a brief Google so I may be wrong)!

Merry Christmas Rebecca!