War and Peace readalong thread 2022 - thread 3

[VikingNorthUtsire]

Welcome to the third thread. Please see the OP in threads 1 or 2 for the full info.on the readalong, links to different editions and translations, blog posts, etc.

I think most of us are established now so for this post I'll just re-shsre the reading schedule

Different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

No, I don't think we ever came across Ramballe or Morel before. Gradesaver sounds as if we should know who they are!

Going back to Kutuzov, I think he was always described as old and doddering, but sound of mind and good judgement.

I had to click on the grade saver link this is what it said:

Captain Ramballe

A jocular French officer whom Pierre saves from a gunshot in occupied Moscow.

So casting my mind back this is when Pierre went to his Masonic mentor's house to rescue or read the Masonic books and whilst there saved the French officer from being shot by a confused elderly gent, maybe the mentor's father?

I also read (last time I read W&P so I'm paraphrasing) that Kutuzov had indeed been written off by historians as a doddering waste of space - 'the General who didn't want to fight', as he describes himself in the novel I think.
Tolstoy reevaluated his contribution to the Napoleonic wars and has been almost single-handedly responsible for the rehabilitation of Kutuzov in the eyes of the world since W&P was published. He is now considered to have been on the money with regard to many of his battlefield (and organised retreats) decisions.

Oh well done, Desdamona! You're right.
That's him. Morel also makes an appearance when he delivers a message. Ramballe was shot by an old guy who was the brother of the deceased master of the house, 'a drunken half-wit'.

Thank you, Desdemona - and now I remember him! How the mighty have fallen, eh!

22/11/22

Volume IV, Part 4, Chapter 10

Chapter 10
Kutuzov’s troops cross the Berezina River and destroy the French army. Kutuzov is awarded the Order of St. George, Russia’s highest military honor.

Count Tolstoy? Any relation?! :)

That was a nice moment for Kutuzov, but it occurred to me that he was awarded the medal very quietly without any public acknowledgement.

23/11/22

Volume IV, Part 4, Chapter 11

Despite the award, the tsar is displeased with Kutuzov because he wants the Russian army to keep pursuing the French past Poland. Kutuzov wants to stop because the French have already surrendered. Kutuzov dies shortly thereafter.

It makes me so happy to see this thread still going. I am just so gutted that my year of reading went off the rails. This is the first year for ages I have fallen off the 50 Books too.

I'm still going with W&P though, although maybe too far behind to catch up. I'm actually wondering if I can skip the war chapters, find out what happens to the main characters, and jump back in for December?

I know it's not in the spirit but I will admit I have found (and am still finding) the war chapters hideously dull, apart from the odd wonderfully atmospheric bit of description. All the stuff about tactics and what one general said to another has left me entirely cold.

Hi Viking! II's good to hear from you!
I'd say read the thread and jump back in ;)

I stopped reading in about June, and restarted in September, so a full 3 months to catch up on and the longest chapters. I admit I speed read a lot, I set a target for each commute - could you do the same @VikingNorthUtsire? Doing 2 chapters AM and PM means catch up quite quicker than envisage. I’m also keeping up by keeping the same pattern, rather than 1 a day. Reading a couple on commute every few days.

Nice to see you again Viking!

I've fallen off the 50 book thread too Viking, which has actually felt quite liberating, a book a week was too high a target for me with all the doom scrolling I've been doing this year!
Even with W&P I've tended to be either falling behind or many chapters ahead I must admit.

24/11/22

Volume IV, Part 4, Chapter 12

Pierre finally learns of his wife’s death, as well as that of Prince Andrei. He becomes ill, but recovers. He begins to realize that the meaning of life is not something one must search for; rather, it lies in faith in God.

I also find the war chapters really dull! And I’m another one who rarely reads a chapter a day - I tend to read a few in one go so I’m always either slightly behind or slightly ahead depending how long it’s been since my last binge!

I'm a bit sick of the war too! I enjoyed the earlier chapters but now it just seems to be dragging on (possibly like real life war...!). I do mostly stick to a chapter a day though. Sometimes I fall behind or read ahead, but only by 1 or 2 chapters.

I'm still on the 50 book thread too, and have never fallen off it in the last 10 years! Clearly it suits me to read to a system!

Volume IV, Part 4, Chapter 5 Ends with “For a lackey there can be no great man, because a lackey has his own idea of greatness.”. This made no sense to me, especially after the preceding text. I assume the lackey is referring to Kutuzov as a genuine Russian with Russian heart serving Russia only and not his own ego? But the text is about lackeys glorifying great men. Just seemed like a trite non-sequitur to end the chapter on, which is the first time I’ve felt that way with this book, so thought I’d ask here if I missed something. Maybe other translations used a different word to lackey. I read this chapter on the right day but found it confusing so stopped. Have caught up now. Pierre’s got a lot to take in in one go. His freedom started with seeing Petya Rostov’s corpse, he would have only ever known him as a child.

As a first time reader, I’m wondering where Tolstoy will go with the ending. Will it be all loose ends tied up, Marya marries Nikolai, Natasha marries Pierre? Or will it go leftfield and do something we don’t expect, like Natasha becomes a nun.

Thank you for the images @Mb76, I have thought of you often whilst reading. It says a lot that we instantly recognise the scenes portrayed, when so much has happened in the book. When Petya dies, I thought a lot of that first illustration you shared of all the Rostov siblings rushing in to the room.

The war sections are rather dry, especially this far into the book but I remember from reading it before how I felt when I put it down (that I'd read a genuine masterpiece!) so am presuming things pick up again soon. Perhaps now we're back with Pierre, we'll start seeing the more human side of the times again?

I'm not sure I had lackey in my version, Bakeoff, although I can't remember - I'm reading Briggs if that helps at all.

Similar to when Bagration was just casually mentioned as dead, I was sad that Kutusov was just written off in one line. I guess I'm a bit too sentimental but they really deserved better.

The 50 book thread sounds fun!

I love the 50 Book thread and still mentally review the books that I read but I just haven't had the capacity for it this year. I would love to round off the year on this thread properly so I'm going to catch up through a combination of speed-reading and (ahem) minor cheating, and join you all back for December. I'm not too far behind I don't think.

I’ve been reading Kutuzov’s wiki entry, as I thought Tolstoy had a point, why do we know Napoleon, Genghis etc so well but I didn’t know the name Kutuzov. Ahem, when Kutuzov died in 1813 “He had five daughters; his only son died of smallpox as an infant. As he had no male heir, his estates passed to the Tolstoy family, as his eldest daughter, Praskovia, had married Count Matvei Fyodorovich Tolstoy.” . I can’t find anything about how they might be related exactly, but Leo Tolstoy was born in 1828. I did find this ancestry tree but I can’t read it. artsandculture.google.com/asset/genealogical-table-ancestors-of-leo-tolstoy/7AE_fXhrinEHIQ

25/11/22

Volume IV, Part 4, Chapter 13

Pierre recuperates from his ordeal in the Russian city of Orel. His new outlook on life wins him many friends. The Moscow fire has unfortunately cost Pierre much of his fortune. Although there is a way for him to save himself financially by ignoring Hélène’s debts and giving up his estates in Moscow, Pierre chooses not to.

@BakeOffRewatch my translation (Maude) has a very similar sentence also using the word lackey. I agree, it's not clear to me what is meant by this.