War and Peace Readalong thread 2022

[VikingNorthUtsire]

Interest thread for the 2022 War and Peace readalong

THIS OP WAS UPDATED on 4/1 BY MNHQ (THANK YOU) TO ADD MORE DETAIL TO THE READING SCHEDULE AND UPDATE THE AMAZON LINKS

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.

• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes

• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: ]]

NB also this link for the kindle version: ]]

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: ]]

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: ]]

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

I always picture Napolean from Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure which is horribly unfair as he's portrayed as a petty, angry little man... who's very fond of ice-cream sundaes Still my favourite film.. must've watched it over 100 times and never gets old!

the Bill and Ted references really made me chuckle. That's totally how I think of Napoleon as well.

I enjoyed today's chapter, it's all ramping up. Do you get the feeling that pretty much everyone (maybe barring Napoleon) taking part in this war is a total idiot?

Chapter 15.

Andrey joins Bagration's detachment who are hanging around, playing the waiting game. Bagration gives Andrey the option of staying with him or going to the rear. Andrey opts for the former. He wants to experience the action.

Andrey takes a tour of the territory. He observes officers hanging around; eating, drinking and drying their clothes. One company is waiting for porridge to be cooked, another group is doling out measures of vodka. The mood is generally cheerful, even more so the closer he gets to enemy lines. He meets Captain Tushin, an artillery officer, a diminutive fellow with a cheerful outlook.

At the point where the Russians and the French are closest, the two sides can see each others faces and even converse with one another. There is a lot of teasing and joking going on. Dolokhov is arguing with a French grenadier and putting him straight that the Austrians were defeated at Ulm, not the Russians. When Siderov practises his 'French' and talks a load of gibberish, there is an outburst of laughter among the Russians and the French join in.

One might wonder if the two sides could just pack up their guns and equipment and set off home, seeing as they all get along so well.

I thought that this was an interesting chapter, portraying in detail what life was like for the soldiers as they were waiting around. It sounded hard. I can't imagine how they ever dried out their clothes. They seemed to be existing on porridge.
I thought the joking around was Tolstoy's way of highlighting the soldiers' common humanity and showing the futility of war.

It was interesting although I didn't like the part where they were doling out their own justice by lashing one of the soldiers with birches.. I guess it was a sign of the times and ensured compliance from the other soldiers but, amongst all the other observations, this really stood out for me. I think it's also because I pictured Bargration's advance force as so small but actually, 4,000 men is a LOT!

Nice to see Dolokhov back in action! He likes to be in the thick of things, doesn't he...

It wasn't a pleasant scene, SanFranBear. It's suggested that he might have also been shouting loudly for effect?! Dolokhov does like to be in the thick of things alright.

The overwhelming impression I get of the war is how chaotic it is. Communications are obviously an issue and the left hand don't always know what the right hand are doing. Skirmishes or even minor battles are being lost and won and the Emperor is in Vienna knowing nothing about it.

I sang in the choir at school and we had a brilliant teacher. I remember when we started learning Haydn's Missa in Angustiis (the Nelson Mass) he explained to us that it was written during a terrifying time of war in Europe, hence the name he gave it which means "A Mass for Troubled Times". The Austrians don't get a lot of respect in Tolstoy's telling but listening to this, it's so atmospheric, you can really imagine what a difficult and scary time it must have been to live through

I think you’re all quite right: Tolstoy is giving us a very realistic portrait of war, from incompetent senior officers to the sufferings and common humanity of the soldiers. And military discipline is notoriously harsh, isn’t it? (It makes me think of the characterisation of Royal Naval traditions as ‘rum, sodomy and the lash’.)

I’ve been reading the short stories of Nikolai Leskov who was writing at the same time as Tolstoy and in the story I’m currently reading (A Winter’s Day) two ladies are having a conversation about Tolstoy and what they think of him (really quite positive, though they don’t like his bashing you over the head with philosophy).

Anyway, this part amused me.

‘If you want my opinion, I think those hussar’s uniforms are —a little immodest.’

‘Yes, but they’re awfully attractive.’

That's really funny StColombofNavron! goes off to check out the illustrations again

Thank you for that link, VikingNorthUtsire. I don't know that Mass at all. I'll definitely listen to it.

Chapter 16.

Andrey rides up to the battery where there is a good view of the whole field. Four cannons are lined up and prepared for firing. A small group of officers are close by, engaged in conversation.

Andrey admires the view. He can see the Russian and French forces and the village of Schöngrabern. He takes out a notebook and pencil and sketches a plan. He intends to bring two proposals to Bagration. He thinks Bagration will benefit from his insight. After all, he has studied military history and has experience in observing large-scale movements of troops.

Engrossed in his planning, he recognises the voice of the diminutive artillery officer, Captain Tushin. He is saying how he is afraid of dying and facing the unknown. Just as another officer coaxes him to share his vodka, a great whoosh comes through the air. A cannonball comes flying out of nowhere and lands nearby on the ground with great force.

Everyone scatters to battle stations.

I quite liked seeing Andrey go into analysis mode... he probably thinks he's better than he is but I reckon Bagration would probably have welcomed his sketches, although perhaps less his commentary!

That final bit with the cannonball though... scary! Whenever I read about war and combat and people describe the sound of bullets or bombs coming, I feel really anxious... its just such a vivid sound and you know its inevitable that it's going to land/hit somewhere. Ugh, I'm so glad I am unlikely to ever see war up close and personal!

Yes! There is a reference to a cannonball in today's chapter as a 'French pancake' and I'm wondering how they can joke about it. I'd be petrified!

Chapter 17.

Andrey doesn't run away. He stays at the scene and observes the movements of the French whose troops are moving to strengthen the line. There is more cannon fire. The battle has begun in earnest.

Andrey goes to find Bagration. He is excited. He sees excitement in the faces of the soldiers around him. He meets up with Bagration who seems calm and collected. He joins his entourage which comprises of a few officers including Zherkov and an auditor, who seems out of place among the others.

They observe the death of a Cossack and make a joke about the enemy's cannon fire that has killed the man. Bagration rides up to Tushin who is hard at work, firing the cannon and managing his gunners.

Tushin hasn't received any orders but has consulted with his sergeant who has agreed to set the village on fire. Bagration scrutinises the scene and gives orders for the two battalions to move from the centre over to the right to reinforce that flank.

Continued.

This move would leave the big guns without cover, but when his orders are questioned, Bagration does not respond. Andrey thinks the officer asking the question makes a good point but does not speak up.

The French continue to arrive in large numbers and put pressure on the Russians who are forced to retreat. The right flank is under huge pressure and may not hold out much longer.

Andrey is amazed when he listens to the conversation between Bagration and his officers to hear that no real orders are given. It is all a great pretence. Bagration is happy to assume that whatever happens, whether it is accidentally done or done by his commanding officers, it is all part of the plan.

Bagration seems to be a figurehead whose calm presence radiates such confidence that meeting him revives the spirits of his commanding officers before they go back into battle.

Does anyone know what Andrey means when he says 'But where do I look? How do I find my Toulon?' This is close to the start of the chapter when he is looking for Bagration.

Is it his pet name for Bagration? (joking!)

I'd agree with the very realistic portrayal of war, and particularly the overwhelming impression of chaos. I suspect that's one thing that hasn't changed over the years.

Fuzzy, my version had a footnote in an earlier chapter when Toulon was also mentioned, apparently Napoleon’s first military glory came in Toulon in 1793, so Andrey fancies a chance to distinguish himself here and emulate Napoleon.

Thank you Cornishblues! That makes sense.
I'm not following the footnotes on the Kindle.

I was wondering how they could all be such clueless idiots but I guess it's not like they go to military school, especially the higher-ups who are put in charge by virtue of their titles rather than military skill or expertise.

Yes, Mama.. it brings to mind poor Nikolai, when he first encountered combat and had no idea what he was doing.

I guess that's why great military minds of the age, such as Napolean, were so dominant - they really understood war and, more importantly, their adversaries. That said, it doesn't sound like Tolstoy really rated the Russians very highly here and, given he's relating real battles and conflicts, maybe he's got a bit of Andrey's hero worship of ole Boney? Interestingly, a quick Google does say that Tolstoy was a pacifist, but for religious rather than moral or political reasons. I know so little about the man!

I agree with both of you. It seems to me that the planning is done remotely by the generals and it falls apart on the battlefield.

Chapter 18

The fighting is very intense. There are many casualties. The air is thick with gun smoke and the whine and whistle of bullets. The battle is raging. Andrey is disoriented. He is having difficulty understanding the formation of the troops on the field.

Bagration receives a report from a Colonel who says that the regiment has lost more than half its men. The attack may have been repulsed or maybe not, it's anyone's guess.

Bagration seems to have come to life. He looks exhilarated, energised, and oblivious to the bullets that are raining down upon him.

The wind lifts the pall of smoke and they see the French troops marching on the opposite hillside. The remainder of the regiment and the two battalions of the Sixth Chasseurs get in line and everyone marches behind the captain who keeps time and does his best to make a good impression on Bagration.

A cannon ball flies over their heads. Bagration cheers them on. Andrey swells up in pride and feels a sensation of supreme happiness. There is another barrage of bullets and some men fall to the ground including the captain who took such pride in his marching.

Bagration roars out 'hurrah!' and this is taken up by the men echoing down the line as they run chaotically down the hill towards the French troops.