Is there a current chalet school thread? Anyone fancy it?

[FelicityBeedle]

Was introduced to these on MN a few years ago, having a reread. Forgotten the extent to which I want to shake Mary Lou!

Also on a re read of the series at the moment. Although I’m not doing them in order - what a rebel!

I’ve also been enjoying some of the fill ins, my favourite so far being “A refuge for the chalet school” by Amy Fletcher. Some of the fill ins are hit and miss though, I really didn’t enjoy “The Bettany Twins” the plot was just silly.
The Armishire books are my favourite, love the war years and I like the characters more in those books.

@FelicityBeedle and anyone else who likes social history, if you read 19thc novels in general, you might love Judith Flanders' The Victorian House -- which is a brilliant chunk of social history on Victorian domesticity, and wonderfully dippable-into. She goes around a Victorian house (basing herself on the middle classes, but with excursions up and down the social scale) and in bedroom, parlour, scullery, breakfast room, sickroom, nursery, dining room, bathroom, kitchen etc, she basically analyses what people did, ate, wore, worked, their hobbies, social lives etc. There are fascinating descriptions of Victorian laundry, courtship, mourning clothes and the rules of mourning, visiting cards, relationships between mistress and servants, the growth of suburbs, the treatment of illness, childrearing practices, as well as heating, lighting, sanitation, home decoration fashions etc etc.

It illuminates all kinds of things about 19thc fiction, and made me understand things in fiction I'd never thought much about, like why Katy Carr has most of the furniture and the carpet and curtains removed from Amy Ashe's hotel room when she's ill, and has the floor scrubbed with soap and the bed pulled out from the wall, or why Mrs Fairfax has to hand over the keys of the storeroom to enable the servant to make a meal for Jane Eyre when she arrives at Thornfield..

The other one I'd recommend from a social history perspective is Jane Austen and Food by Maggie Lane, which is brilliant on the things Austen does with food, meals etc which would have been understood by her contemporary readers -- like the significance of the big difference between the Longbourn breakfast time and the Netherfield one, or what the significance of the fruit served at Pemberley is.

Virginia Nicholson's Singled Out is also very good on the very interesting lives of the 'Surplus Women' who would have expected to marry, but whose potential pool of men was decimated by WWI, and what they did instead -- some of the CS mistresses would have been from this demographic.

I shall look those out @BinocularVision
Is there a book I’m missing which covers Jo’s time in India? It’s often referenced with hints to stories and the like that aren’t fleshed out

There's a fill-in called Two Chalet Girls in India, I think, by Priyadarshini Narendra. It was pretty good.

There are a couple of good FB groups I’m on,
Chalet School sales and wants
New Chalet Club

I’ve bought and sold on the sales and wants, it works well.

I think EBD had plans for a book about Joey going to India but never wrote it.Same with Gay when she was in China.

I’ve reached Mary Lou’s year as head girl, almost tempted to skip them! It does make me laugh that OOAO is Mary Lou the Mary Sue

Theodora is actually quite good, except Margot being a Grade A bitch and Mary-Lou's speech to Ted, Emerence and the triplets. She was out of order throwing Ted's past in her face like that. One, it was none of her business and two, the whole point of Ted joining the CS and being called Ted was so she could make a fresh start. Con did nothing wrong and while Len is an enabler, it's a bit unfair to have a go at her for worrying about her sisters when her parents have been expecting her to be responsible for them pretty much since she was born. They pigeonhole her as the responsible one when she's a toddler and then wonder why she's always worrying. And Joey should have been told, difficult pregnancy or not, and not fobbed off with 'it was very bad but it's over now'. Ted herself is great though.

Also, another thing that struck me during Genius: EBD really, really hates the Reformers, especially John Knox. She has Mary-Lou talk about what a bastard Knox was towards Mary Queen of Scots and how un-Christian he was...even though OOAO is Protestant herself. It's not the first time she's made a dig at them in the books either.

Btw is Cosimo's Jackal in this thread? waves

I always find myself imagining what would have happened if Theodora arrived at the school and said ‘But I like my name!’ when Joey tells her she’s renaming her, like a rescue dog, and ‘But I like my hair!’when Hilda appears with a brush and a ribbon and ideas for a Fresh Start Hairdo. Cringeorama! Your new Head brushing your hair!

And it seems a bit mad that the supposedly revolutionary new style is just brushing it and keeping it back off her face with a ribbon — I mean, hadn’t anyone ever tried that before? Or plaits or’Kenwigses’, if the single ponytail Joey is unimpressed by in Len is viewed as too racy? Or a Croydon Facelift-type tight bun?

EBD does like a hairstyle change to signal a shift in personality. MaryLou being cropped marks her becoming really grown up, Eustacia’s being loosened then finally also cropped, Joey becoming worldly wise and irritating when she gains her bloody ear phone plaits, even the triplets different hair is what gives them their personality seemingly

Theodora is actually quite good, except Margot being a Grade A bitch and Mary-Lou's speech to Ted, Emerence and the triplets.

I actually found it more realistic (and probably enjoyed slightly less!) because there was a popular girl who was a grade a bitch but who was also favoured by the school! Agree with your analysis about the triplets - poor bloody Len being told off for how she’d been raised.

@FelicityBeedle

EBD does like a hairstyle change to signal a shift in personality. MaryLou being cropped marks her becoming really grown up, Eustacia’s being loosened then finally also cropped, Joey becoming worldly wise and irritating when she gains her bloody ear phone plaits, even the triplets different hair is what gives them their personality seemingly

And you always know a girl has become a woman when she puts her hair up. EBD was a big fan of the Important Haircut trope. There's Lavender cutting off her ringlets as a sign she's grown up too.

@JassyRadlett Margot and Jack both get away with much more than other girls. Three young girls get a really nasty punishment for gasping when Verity refuses to sing in German, the Middles in Peggy lose their entire weekend over the Regency slang prank, but Jack and Margot bully people and get away with it. Jane is so sweet, and when Jack attacks her and she tries to defend herself, Maeve has a big go at her, because I guess Jane should have just stood there and let Jack pull her hair. It always seems so out of place in the CS because usually the bullies/bad girls always get what they deserve, as opposed to Antonia Forest (where Marie never gets punished over the Guides incident).

EBD just has a total blind spot about certain favoured characters, like Margot (who was it she nearly brained with a book end Betty Landon? but who should have known better than to make a mildly tactless remark of the kind people make in the CS world all the time to a girl with a notorious temper?) and Jack (who is waaay less charming than EBD clearly intended, and a total thug -- wasn't there also some implicit criticism of a mistress for not realising she should have asked Jack's permission to do something with her own car??? )

And there are some insane double standards with schoolgirl Joey, who is allowed to be all snide and joky about Juliet's love life and be all matey with Grizel in Camp, even though they're both mistresses which is understandable, as they're former pupils and friends and this isn't even at school, but at a guide camp but when Grizel calls her 'my child' in return, the mistresses say she shouldn't be calling Joey that in front of the younger girls.

Though I think one of the maddest moments in the entire series in terms of Joey being the Chosen One is when Mademoiselle anxiously shows her around her new, private, freshly-decorated room in ST Clare's -- I mean, can you imagine another school story in which the Head is visibly nervous in case a prefect doesn't like her carefully-decorated private accommodation and wants to go back to the Green dormitory?

(I mean, obviously there's a total realism to a gentle, rather ineffectual Head who takes over when the beloved school founder marries and leaves, despite never having signed up for being principal of a big school, and is stuck with the beloved founder's very popular sister as her Head Girl, and who is anxious about it because this girl has a lot of power with her sister and all the pupils, but I don't think it's a realism EBD intended!)

as opposed to Antonia Forest (where Marie never gets punished over the Guides incident).

Marie isn't punished in the sense of being sanctioned but 'karma' certainly strikes as she's virtually ostracised by the other girls in her form afterwards (even though they don't know the details of the Guides incident) and then in The Cricket Term (offstage) she drops dead.

@BinocularVision

EBD just has a total blind spot about certain favoured characters, like Margot (who was it she nearly brained with a book end Betty Landon? but who should have known better than to make a mildly tactless remark of the kind people make in the CS world all the time to a girl with a notorious temper?) and Jack (who is waaay less charming than EBD clearly intended, and a total thug -- wasn't there also some implicit criticism of a mistress for not realising she should have asked Jack's permission to do something with her own car??? )

And there are some insane double standards with schoolgirl Joey, who is allowed to be all snide and joky about Juliet's love life and be all matey with Grizel in Camp, even though they're both mistresses which is understandable, as they're former pupils and friends and this isn't even at school, but at a guide camp but when Grizel calls her 'my child' in return, the mistresses say she shouldn't be calling Joey that in front of the younger girls.

Though I think one of the maddest moments in the entire series in terms of Joey being the Chosen One is when Mademoiselle anxiously shows her around her new, private, freshly-decorated room in ST Clare's -- I mean, can you imagine another school story in which the Head is visibly nervous in case a prefect doesn't like her carefully-decorated private accommodation and wants to go back to the Green dormitory?

(I mean, obviously there's a total realism to a gentle, rather ineffectual Head who takes over when the beloved school founder marries and leaves, despite never having signed up for being principal of a big school, and is stuck with the beloved founder's very popular sister as her Head Girl, and who is anxious about it because this girl has a lot of power with her sister and all the pupils, but I don't think it's a realism EBD intended!)

One thing that really puts me off any canon is when a creator is obviously in love with a character and the character gets built up at the expense of others and there's some major protagonist-centred morality going on. For me, it's one of the worst things about the CS books. I'm glad you mentioned Camp because while it is a fun book, Joey is awful in it. So smug and obnoxious. I don't blame Juliet for getting angry with her oh-so-hilarious little digs about Donal, given what happened one book earlier and all the trouble she had with Donal's family. And of course it's Miss Stewart who complains about Grizel being snarky at Joey and calling her 'my child'. Miss Slater gets criticise for having favourites but Miss Stewart favours Joey, so it's OK when she does it. Grizel is older than Joey, and a mistress. Joey is still a pupil. Even if Grizel isn't very nice, she's still above Joey in the pecking order.

All Betty did was tell Margot to be quiet, and yet that justifies Margot lobbing a bookend at her according to CS rules. This is another major difference between EBD and Antonia Forest - Nick is obviously her favourite, BUT the Marlows do have enemies (and Lois is a very well-written example), they don't always get their own way (like when Lawrie gets kicked out of the play) and Tim rips the piss out of them for wanting to keep up with their older sisters and be special.

(Sorry if I'm being negative but it is SUCH a relief not to have to bite my tongue all the time like I do on the CBB)

This is another major difference between EBD and Antonia Forest - Nick is obviously her favourite, BUT the Marlows do have enemies (and Lois is a very well-written example), they don't always get their own way (like when Lawrie gets kicked out of the play) and Tim rips the piss out of them for wanting to keep up with their older sisters and be special.

Yes, definitely - and the baddies usually have some good qualities - Lois is attractive and talented; Lieutenant Foley is kind to Nicola when she's seasick etc. Marie is perhaps an exception there, with very little to recommend her, but I always think she's more of a victim than a baddie.

Does anyone know of it was normal to be fined for misdemeanours in school? I know it goes to the san but it still feels very mean

@BinocularVision

EBD just has a total blind spot about certain favoured characters, like Margot (who was it she nearly brained with a book end Betty Landon? but who should have known better than to make a mildly tactless remark of the kind people make in the CS world all the time to a girl with a notorious temper?) and Jack (who is waaay less charming than EBD clearly intended, and a total thug -- wasn't there also some implicit criticism of a mistress for not realising she should have asked Jack's permission to do something with her own car??? )

And there are some insane double standards with schoolgirl Joey, who is allowed to be all snide and joky about Juliet's love life and be all matey with Grizel in Camp, even though they're both mistresses which is understandable, as they're former pupils and friends and this isn't even at school, but at a guide camp but when Grizel calls her 'my child' in return, the mistresses say she shouldn't be calling Joey that in front of the younger girls.

Though I think one of the maddest moments in the entire series in terms of Joey being the Chosen One is when Mademoiselle anxiously shows her around her new, private, freshly-decorated room in ST Clare's -- I mean, can you imagine another school story in which the Head is visibly nervous in case a prefect doesn't like her carefully-decorated private accommodation and wants to go back to the Green dormitory?

(I mean, obviously there's a total realism to a gentle, rather ineffectual Head who takes over when the beloved school founder marries and leaves, despite never having signed up for being principal of a big school, and is stuck with the beloved founder's very popular sister as her Head Girl, and who is anxious about it because this girl has a lot of power with her sister and all the pupils, but I don't think it's a realism EBD intended!)

Thing is, I agree with you - EBD is in love with Jo as a character. But she's also a strong enough writer in the early years to get two things across - Jo has charm and charisma, and lots of influence as a result AND Jo can be intense, moody and still influential with it - and people can be justifiably irritated by her. Jo getting stroppy about this would have put a spanner in the works. I do think the surprise element is ridiculous here though - Jo has access to state secrets about the school and its pupils (literally, in Princess!) at 13, but they don't bother mentioning a major reorganization to her as headgirl before term begins!?

The other way this is good writing - Mademoiselle's nervousness is convincing enough. But if it was Madge or Jem or Bill showing her around? It would be utterly unconvincing and I don't think she'd have written it.

It's odd because she absolutely doesn't articulate the power dynamic - founder's charismatic, unambitious sister influencing the school. But it creeps over the edges a lot in this book and others. I think EBD wrote realistic characters and interactions at this stage - the moral she drew from them could sometimes be utterly bizarre, though.

@FelicityBeedle

Does anyone know of it was normal to be fined for misdemeanours in school? I know it goes to the san but it still feels very mean

It would make some sense if we knew they had a fixed amount of pocket money - I don't think we do? But otherwise it's a madly unfair punishment. Still, they'd have to spend it on charity collections and at sales if it wasn't already gone on fines, wouldn't they

I think EBD wrote realistic characters and interactions at this stage - the moral she drew from them could sometimes be utterly bizarre, though.

Well, that's the thing, isn't it? I don't think for a moment EBD was conscious that she was writing a scene in which the power of a charismatic, wildly popular sister-of-the-Founder HG over a gentle, ineffectual and unwilling Head is being demonstrated, but it's certainly open to that interpretation. Especially when it's followed shortly by the whole Matron Besly fiasco, which largely comes down to her not having been properly briefed on school rules (prefects don't get order marks, are allowed to read in bed, and staff don't enter their bedrooms) and not realising she's supposed to recognise that Joey is a 'dear girl' and be given special treatment.

The new Matron is not a nice woman, but it's hard not to feel for her when she's just been told to leave Joey alone and not interfere in her morning reading or enter her room, and a second later is being scolded by Matey for not realising that the always-pale Joey has toothache she's concealing because she's afraid of the dentist. Matron could be forgiven for retorting that if someone is senior and responsible enough to be HG, she could be expected to report her own minor health conditions.

(Which leads me to how poor, fragile Margot Venables ever hacked it as a CS Matron. Unless it had been drummed into even the most mischievous Middles that she's one of the Russell-Bettany clan, and anyone messing with her will be quietly terminated. )

Being mean to Margot Venables would be like kicking a puppy. Even for Naughty Middles.

Matron Besley is a jumped-up little arsehole but she does have a point about Joey's face, and how the hell is she supposed to know when Joey's ill when she's naturally pale? Matey knows Joey, Matron Besley doesn't. And she is right that Joey gets preferential treatment. Of course, she undermines her argument by making a huge point of humiliating Joey in front of the others and making up her own rules all the time and refusing to take advice from anyone, and then the storm comes and she has a massive panic attack (and gets no sympathy).

Just tried to join CBB to have a look but I can't make head or tail of the confirmation codes. Totally unreadable. Total fail on accessibility.

@elkiedee

Just tried to join CBB to have a look but I can't make head or tail of the confirmation codes. Totally unreadable. Total fail on accessibility.

They're probably afraid of an influx of Joey-bashers nipping over from Mumsnet and have battened down the hatches.

Thinking about the new prefects' rooms in New House is making me think about one of the things I've always found charmingly dotty about the CS -- EBD's adoration of a detailed description of a lovely matchy-matchy bit of interior décor. The prefects' rooms in the new chalet are completely individual and insanely matchy, and from what I remember there was some 'rule' Mademoiselle was evidently following about which direction the room faced dictating the colour scheme? And two of them have pink colour schemes, but with different flowers on the cretonne?

It's a bit of a step up from the Green dormitory and a cubicle which is presumably identical to everyone else's! And it must have been a bit crappy for the other prefects who presumably stayed in cubicles in ordinary dormitories at the main school, while the Quartette are larging it in their individually-designed private rooms.

Just read a bizarre like in trials
“ “Verity, who possessed a knack of rubbing hair dry that her “sister-by-marriage” declared was a positive gift.”
Can one person really be that superior at drying hair?