Troubled Blood - *Spoiler-laden discussion*

[EllacottObsessive]

Setting this up for Strike and Ellacott fans to talk about spoilery things.

Directed my Meeee-shell? That Sue Tully?

Apparently so. Hadn't made that connection before.

It's such a good article. I love how dynamic the process seems to be, working between the screenwriter, author and crew. You're never going to hit every mark, no matter how hard you try ('advanced driving' across a muddy field instead of a motorway pile-up, I'm lookin' at you ), but given the limitations, I think the adaptations do well.

"Where a 650-page book can find four or five elegant loops to take us somewhere, we might need to find a way to get there with one loop, which forces us to create something new."

It feels like it is always a trade-off between the narrative satisfaction you get from taking the time to cycle through those four or five loops and the visual satisfaction you get from actually seeing what you have only been able to imagine. So in LW, by binning the hospital scene and moving the accidental kiss to the side of the road confession, you lose that slow reveal of Strike's feelings but you gain two fine actors showing what intimacy gained through vulnerability looks like. (I love how Tom Burke schools his facial movements when Strike hears Robin has left Matthew - that little nod is fantastic.)

Of course, the accidental kiss then becomes more one of Strike comforting Robin than showing his gratitude for her support with Jack, i.e. more about her vulnerability than his. I'd always go for the book than the visual if I had to choose because of this sort of thing. But as long as I can have both I will.

100% agree.

But then I guess he makes himself vulnerable with the kiss either way, which still works for where his character is with her.

Yes, I guess that the effect of the kiss is to make himself vulnerable in both iterations, but the kiss in the book expresses his vulnerability while on screen it is a response to hers.

Maybe I would argue that we generally have less insight into tv Strike's vulnerability for various reasons (to do with how we see men and women and the circumstances of Robin's character) and this is just one example of how adapting for the screen often smooths out interesting bumps. It really seems like (is!) the most minor of differences, but it does show how moving from one medium to another changes things you wouldn't expect.

And also how even small changes can create other ripples in the story. The TV cast of core characters is significantly smaller than the book cast, for example. I think it's by no means certain that we will meet Joan in the adaptation. I suspect they might attempt to mark the same emotional beats with what happens with Charlotte, as they've already established the character. 4 (or 6 episodes if we're lucky) isn't a lot of time to set up a character with a strong enough emotional connection to sucker punch us for Strike when she passes. It can be done, but they obviously need plenty of space for the case too.

I think it's by no means certain that we will meet Joan in the adaptation. I suspect they might attempt to mark the same emotional beats with what happens with Charlotte, as they've already established the character. 4 (or 6 episodes if we're lucky) isn't a lot of time to set up a character with a strong enough emotional connection to sucker punch us for Strike when she passes.

We've met Ted in CoE but not Joan - is that right? I've said before that I think they will have to lose all the Cornwall stuff. I guess they could combine the Rokeby's party and the Charlotte storylines to give Strike those emotional beats, so we can get chapter 58. I still think it is a shame we didn't get the hospital scene in LW, just because it is such an emotionally vulnerable moment for Strike (he cries!), and I don't think we see a revealing moment for him like that anywhere else in the tv adaptations.

The detective case is going to have to be massively simplified, even more than LW. Crossing my fingers for the dinner party row, Skegness and Barclay telling Morris to read the room. Although maybe they will have to lose Morris...

We saw Ted in his shed, talking about the plant he had placed on Leda's grave. That's it as far as I recall. I don't even think Joan has been name checked.

I think I would guess that Morris as another equivalent subcontractor to Barclay will disappear, but he might become a minor contact who behaves inappropriately and gives us an incident that will give rise to a similar scene.

I'm going to be sad but pragmatic about whatever they jettison. However, I'm actually really intrigued about what they are going to do and how they are going to shift things to still hit all the right notes.

I think it's going to have to be a flashback heavy tale at the very least. It would he quite nice to have some parallel storytelling and some nice sliding cuts between the past and the present.

I'm betting no Polworth, and so no Tolstoy.

Creed will stay because that confrontation scene in Broadmoor is made for tv. No Irene, only Janet. I'm betting they keep the Ricci storyline so they can do Luca at the nursing home for a bit of menace. Yy to lots of flashbacks so we really get a sense of who Margot was.

But will they do the Valentine's Day dinner party in its full woke-bating glory? I'm saying no but I would love to be wrong.

*Woke-baiting

I've been reading and enjoying all your incredible analysis and the podcasts.

I'm relistening to the books while I really enjoy them, I'm surprised by continuity errors. The biggest was the reference in TB to Robin never gone to a funeral. She went to one in each of the first two books, one her future mother in law's and the catalyst for a major row and plot point (Matt grudgingly accepting her job)! There were a couple of other things that made me but too small to remember now...

But will they do the Valentine's Day dinner party in its full woke-bating glory?

Not a chance...it's the BBC. They've already dialled down any suggestion for a nothing remotely controversial in the other adaptations.

I think it'll take place over a shorter time frame, possibly starting with Strike returning from Cornwall after Joan's funeral (during which the Charlotte shenanigans will have happened, later to be addressed via flashback).

Morris, and his antics, will probably be reduced to a grope in the office, resulting in the scene where he gets sacked.

I think they'll keep Irene and Janice, Dr Gupta and maybe one of Wilma Baylis' daughters (the shirty one) and possibly the Ricci element but do away with the Gloria element.

I wonder if they'll completely do away with the horoscopes element and the original police investigation and the detective's MH issues.

I'm envisaging them cutting them most of the juicy bits...probably to prepare myself. I was so disappointed with Lethal White I'm trying to manage my expectations.

@Barmbraic

I've been reading and enjoying all your incredible analysis and the podcasts.

I'm relistening to the books while I really enjoy them, I'm surprised by continuity errors. The biggest was the reference in TB to Robin never gone to a funeral. She went to one in each of the first two books, one her future mother in law's and the catalyst for a major row and plot point (Matt grudgingly accepting her job)! There were a couple of other things that made me but too small to remember now...

There are a few time errors and other bits too. I think it's quite revealing of how she writes, tbh - she's clearly someone who has a rough outline and then when she does the actual prose work just digs in and goes for it. Unless you have a specific kind of memory (like Strike's I guess) it's easy to forget in hundreds of pages, small details and write a passage that really hits the mark but accidentally contradicts something else.

I wonder if they'll completely do away with the horoscopes element and the original police investigation and the detective's MH issues.

I really hope so. Much as I love Troubled Blood, I'm afraid I find all the detailed horoscope stuff in the book rather tedious. And I don't think it will translate well to the screen.

Yes I ended up skipping the horoscope stuff on my second read.

TBH I skipped all of the creepy stalker's chapters in career of evil when I re-read as well, I couldn't stand them.

The horoscope stuff is there for a reason in the book. It's the kind of thing that could work quite well as an onscreen device for misdirection (the whole point if adding the wacky 'extra' star sign was to obscure the killer's identity) but would need only one or two lines of dialogue to work, not the equivalent of pages and pages of fiddly bits. They're going to have to inject some sort of excitement, given that it's a cold case, and the extra horoscope misdirection could add a moment of 'It was you!' style revelation.

"We never realized he suspected her all along, he'd just layered his suspicions under absurd esoterica so it wasn't clear. Take the layers away, there was decent detective work underneath."
"Well, there was a good hunch, anyway."

Piece of piss.

Looks like there's been another bunfight in AIBU...

archiveofourown.org/chapters/71830062

That's spot on. Now there's someone who's been spending waaaaay too much time on Mumsnet.

(Says the person who's been here just about every day since 2007.)

I bet Ilsa is a regular on Relationships.

That is absolutely epic! What a brilliantly clever idea 👏!!!

Oh, love that.
Brilliant.

while I really enjoy them, I'm surprised by continuity errors. The biggest was the reference in TB to Robin never gone to a funeral. She went to one in each of the first two books, one her future mother in law's and the catalyst for a major row and plot point

The one that struck me was Robin saying in TB that Strike had never told her she was 'the best they had', although he'd said it to other people.

Yes he did. Admittedly they were sitting on a busy motorway verge at the time after she'd had a major panic attack, IIRC, so maybe she wasn't entirely concentrating.

@Lancelottie

while I really enjoy them, I'm surprised by continuity errors. The biggest was the reference in TB to Robin never gone to a funeral. She went to one in each of the first two books, one her future mother in law's and the catalyst for a major row and plot point

The one that struck me was Robin saying in TB that Strike had never told her she was 'the best they had', although he'd said it to other people.

Yes he did. Admittedly they were sitting on a busy motorway verge at the time after she'd had a major panic attack, IIRC, so maybe she wasn't entirely concentrating.

I had not noticed that - he uses exactly the same words too. It's while they are at Newbury after the motorway bit, and although Robin is drinking champagne at the time, you would think she have treasured him saying something so personal and important.