Stories of Poor Waterstones Pay

[ritzbiscuits]

I recently signed petition to support Waterstones staff to get the minimum living wage.

They have now taken their petition to Head Ofgice and also produced this mini book with 40 real anonymous stories about how current wages affect their booksellers. I thought it was something a few of you would like to read:

https://www.organise.org.uk/s/148-Waterstones-book-2.pdf

I know retail is 'the pits' generally, but find it really sad these employees don't feel appreciated or recognised for their skills.

I've been making a concerted effort to not solely buy books from Amazon, but I'm not sure shopping at Waterstones is morally much better.

Well if you want bookshops to thrive then clearly it’s better to buy from them than Amazon.

I don’t buy any any books from Amazon unless the are unavailable from bricks and mortar bookshops because I value bookshops. Not for the staff, but because I like to be able to browse through real books.

I also think that ideally everyone should get the living wage and I do think their multi-floor stores are understaffed, although the latter could be alleviated with more self-service options - the only time I speak to “booksellers” is to check if something is actually in stock, or to check where it is shelved if I can’t find it in the obvious place. But I can understand that given the state of the retail sector, raising pay and staffing levels wouldn’t be without consequences. James Daunt’s responses have been pretty transparent and detailed from what I have seen.

I really don’t think the ‘book’ does them any favours. The use of authors’ names as aliases is downright odd. But basically it’s 50 pages of people saying they are leaving/have left/know people who have left because they don’t get enough money and they could earn more money if they did something less interesting and that this isn’t fair because they know things about books.

It’s such a fundamental misunderstanding of the way the employment market works. And weirdly inward looking. They are describing the conditions that all low paid employees face, but time and time again that’s presented as unfair specifically because they are “booksellers”. The condescension towards people who work on supermarket checkouts is jarring. By all means campaign for a living wage, but don’t make it about your right to be paid to do something you like rather than take a different kind of job. There’s whole careers I like the look of but wouldn’t do because I couldn’t live on the proceeds!

It's been dreadful since Tim Waterstone sold up. I had a relative and several friends that worked there. All highly qualified, librarians, graduates and post grads, all treated badly and all now refusing to shop there.

It isn't just the wages.

Probably no worse than most high street retailers (worse than the supermarkets though) but they tend to have well qualified staff and people perceive their stores to be a "great place to work".

I will support independent book shops instead.

You make some good points thislido. I agree about sometimes you choose to earn less money working in an area that you enjoy. That goes for me personally, though I'm not on such a low wage is causes me to be unable to afford to live. I wholly agree that their comments about supermarket jobs are condescending and don't do them any favours.

Lexilooo, I'm still sorry to hear that things have got much worse for their employees. It's a sad fact of retail generally. I used to work in IKEA as a teenager and in recently talking to a member of staff there, she said conditions were much worse there these days and staff morale is very low. It was a wonderful place to work 15 years ago, everyone felt really valued and supported.

Interestingly IKEA is one of a tiny handful of large retailers who does pay the living wage!

Retail is notoriously badly paid full stop. Why single out Waterstones rather than the likes of the supermarkets who are also raking it in and at the same time, paying a pittance?
The problem with bookselling (a sector I've worked in) is that it has tendency to attract better qualified staff than your average retail job, often graduates.
There is also an expectation that booksellers actually spend their "free" time reading, so they're able to talk about the books they're selling.
The mark-up on books is not great - publishing world being rather a monopoly in so far as you can't buy goods to sell at cheaper prices from China etc - they are what they are, there is one stockist (the publisher) and one price (though expect that Waterstones have a pretty good deal compared to many independent bookshops).

@ thislido I think it was less about pay, as I certainly remember I got paid very well as a 16 year old in the late 90s!

I think it was more about flexibility/managing childcare commitments and a lot of the perks had gone. Some staff still got double time for Sundays and triple time for Bank Hols when I was there!

Almost every retail chain pays less than the living wage though.

I'm sure supermarket staff, restaurant staff, or clothing retailers would write similar stories.

I don't think Waterstones staff are particularly more deserving than any other, only that it potentially might attract more highly educated/more 'entitled' staff. I say that as an ex-employee there.

I definitely agree that NMW is too low to live off, for anyone, and should be increased in line with a living wage, but that issue isn't Waterstones specific.

I signed this too and also got a number of 'whataboutery' replies. The point is not whether others in retail have a bad time but supporting workers who are campaigning for a better one. Why is it that there is a strand of thinking in the UK that wants to pull everyone down rather than lift anyone up? Yes retail workers are badly paid by a number of organisations but why does that preclude supporting those who are trying to change that? Stating that others need support so we won't support the ones asking for it is a very roundabout way of not supporting anyone, and rather disingenuous it seems to me.

The point is not whether others in retail have a bad time but supporting workers who are campaigning for a better one.

They would make that a bit easier though if they weren’t presenting themselves as a special case, which is exactly what the ‘book’ does. It’s one thing saying you want a ‘living wage’. It’s another thing saying that you have other better paid employment options but you want your wages increased in the job you prefer because you think the other jobs are beneath you. The vast majority of customers, from what I observe, are happy to choose their own books and just want to pay. In that sense they are ‘cashiers’, not ‘booksellers’. Which is why the references to supermarket checkout staff are rather grating! I would normally sign this kind of thing without too much thought - I aslmost wish I hadn’t read the ‘book’!

So basically from your perspective people who are struggling to manage - and that is evident - have to make a case in terms that you find acceptable even though you know that they are struggling. Sounds rather like ideological means-testing.

No, the opposite. No issue at all with demanding the ‘living wage’. The case for it is self evident. With the caveat that providing it might mean other staff lose out, less profitable stores close, job losses etc. My issue is that the case is being made on the basis that they are ‘booksellers’ and should not have to resort to other jobs that look less interesting. I don’t know if you’ve read the ‘book’, which is what I was responding to originally, but that’s the point that is made repeatedly.

On reflection, I think you might have been asking whether I would have to agree with their case, rather than just the aim, in order to actively support it. I suppose the short answer is yes. Would I put my name to something demanding a living wage on the basis that life is financially very difficult without it? Yes, albeit with a recognition there could be knock on effects for the viability of the business, which I didn’t see reflected in the bits I read about the campaign. Would I put my name to something where the argument is “We should be paid more because we are ‘booksellers’ with valuable skills” or “if you don’t pay me more then I will have to leave and work in a supermarket/in an admin job”? No. The employment market sorts out the supply and demand on that front.

They are making an ideological case. So yes, I’d need to agree with the ideology to sign up to it. If that’s what you call ‘ideological means testing’?

This is incidental really but supermarkets generally pay better than other large retailers.

Ktay, I think that varies a bit - some of the established supermarket chains are more unionised than most other retailers, and this means that the unions can negotiate better terms and conditions. Plus some supermarket chains are very large. However, the chains also undercut this by offering new staff zero hours contracts or otherwise very inferior conditions.

I think those negotiating for better pay need to use all the arguments at their disposal. Workers in other areas of retail may develop a high level of specialist skills too, and are often poorly paid for their knowledge and experience, but that doesn't mean anyone representing Waterstones workers shouldn't fight for them.

Most of the larger supermarkets have increased pay quite substantially (not saying that’s the same as adequately) in the last few year but admittedly that has often been in exchange for inferior terms, eg the Asda ‘new deal’ and Sainsbury’s removing Sunday premiums when it increased pay to £9.20 an hour. Aldi and Lidl tend to peg pay to the Voluntary Living Wage but are arguably hard taskmasters for these ‘generous’ rates. Pay rates outside the food retailers tend to be much closer to the National Living Wage but obviously there are exceptions.

The problem with arguing it based on skills is that the business knows what skills it wants to attract and retain; what it thinks is essential to maintain the kind of service it wants to offer; and will have a target level of turnover it deems acceptable. As long as there is a stream of suitably knowledgeable people who want to work in bookshops and are prepared to do so for the current rate of pay, there is no argument based on skills to raise the pay.

I buy almost all books from Waterstones because I am afraid if I don’t and it disappears then I only have myself to blame. I love browsing and they supply a loyalty card which mounts up so once more I picked up a book I wanted for “free”. The staff seem generally knowledgeable and one in particular will come over with recommendations (not always living up to expectation) but there is an enjoyable chat to be had.