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Original poster

Shakespeare Aficionados. Much ado about something, please help

22 replies

FiveFingeredFiend · 27/04/2007 15:00

DD is reading MAAN for SATS. In a discussion her English teacher suggested that Benedict & Beatrice got their groove on before the story in the play.

DD questioned this fact and asked me to which i replied "haven't we got the DVD?"

Is this the case and can you provide me with proof?

Thank you

OP posts:

Original poster

FiveFingeredFiend · 27/04/2007 15:04

I know you exist. Don't be shy.

OP posts:

LittleSarah · 27/04/2007 15:12

Well I'm not sure I have the answer but there is a lot of chat at the beginning that refers back to previous craic and conflict between them. That would suggest to me that there little love/hate relationship had started before the play...

BEATRICE: In our last conflict four of his five wits went halting off... He hath every month a new sworn brother.

BEATRICE: O Lord! He will hang upon him like a disease...

Later

BENEDICK: I am loved of all ladies , only you excepted...

Later

BEATRICE: You always end on a jade's trick. I know you of old.

LittleSarah · 27/04/2007 15:14

All of those are in the first act, first few scenes. So certainly they clashed a lot before and perhaps attraction started then?

HTH!

LittleSarah · 27/04/2007 15:14

their little love/hate relationship...

lemonaid · 27/04/2007 15:19

They've clearly known each other and been bickering/bantering for ages, but there's no suggestion of any (ahem) "groove" that I can think of (assuming the teacher means by groove what I think he/she means). In fact, it really wouldn't fit in with subsequent events where each of their friends try to convince them that the other one is in love with them -- if there had been any prior grooving then their reactions don't make any sense.

Probably there has been an ongoing attraction for some time, hence the fact that they seem drawn to one another even if only for purposes of argument, but I think it remains unrecognised by either of them and certainly unacted-upon.

ThatBeetroot · 27/04/2007 15:22

Little Sarah go there first - yes ther is evidence that they have had something before.

Infact

Bea: I pray you, si Signor Mantanto returned from the wars or no? and the following page shows that they have known each other

ThatBeetroot · 27/04/2007 15:24

isn't that what groove means? - an attraction?

ThatBeetroot · 27/04/2007 15:25

Ben: 'I am loved of all ladies, only you excepted'

lemonaid · 27/04/2007 15:31

It can mean to get along well or what the dictionary terms "Slang: A very pleasurable experience." which can be extended to well a very pleasurable experience . I'm not sure which was meant here.

I really don't normally have a dirty mind, honest...

ThatBeetroot · 27/04/2007 15:36

we are talking Shakespeare's tiem here- I have lawys assumed they have had some kin do relationship before hand -

'I pray you, how many hath he killed? For indeed I promised ot eat all of his killing' this would suggest a relationship of sorts in the past

Original poster

FiveFingeredFiend · 27/04/2007 15:51

Groove was completely my term! Please could you translate for me. i thank you very much for spending the time to write where you think there is a pointer to knowing each other in the past, but without an explaination as to why for instance "I am loved of all ladies , only you excepted... "
Funny, that exact phrase came up in discussion and i was at a loss to explain it, as on the surface it seems to say that Benedict has gotten on his groove ( so to speak) with other ladies in his past but lovely beatrice hasn't indulged in the benedict cake of love.

does that necesarily mean that they knew each other?

OP posts:

ThatBeetroot · 27/04/2007 15:55

yes - it would assume that they had had a relationship before,

that whole bit in act one scene one between B and B is full of stuff that means they have met before and had a BANTER.

I know there is another line - it is driving me crazy - will look later

Original poster

FiveFingeredFiend · 27/04/2007 15:57

Thank you muchly

OP posts:

popsycal · 27/04/2007 15:59

insinuated that they have a banter-y love/flirt thing that has been going on for ages

will dredge up my brain....

popsycal · 27/04/2007 16:03

its a lne about lending him it (her love) a while....
let me google

popsycal · 27/04/2007 16:04

Indeed, my lord, he lent it me a while, and I gave him use for it, a double heart for his single one; marry once before he won it off me with false dice'

act 2 scene 1

lemonaid · 27/04/2007 16:05

Leonato says as much in Act 1 Scene 1:

LEONATO You must not, sir, mistake my niece. There is a kind of merry war betwixt Signior Benedick and her: they never meet but there's a skirmish of wit between them.

lemonaid · 27/04/2007 16:06

That was in reply to a previous post, btw

Original poster

FiveFingeredFiend · 27/04/2007 16:15

Thank you i shall force my DD to mumsnet when i get home

OP posts:

ThatBeetroot · 27/04/2007 16:25

pops - i knew there was a line

LittleSarah · 27/04/2007 16:39

Yup, they definitely knew each other before, and had that back and forth witty insulting each other craic etc.

Here is one of my favourite exchanges, these are the first words Beatrice says to Benedick, so it is clear they know each other well enough to be hugely sarky with each other in company:

BEATRICE: I wonder that you be still talking Signor Benedick; nobody marks you.
BENEDICK: What, my dear Lady Disdain! Are you yet living?
BEATRICE: Is it possible disdain should die while she hath such meet food to feed it as Signor Benedick?

agnesnitt · 02/05/2007 13:52

The interpretation from when I was studying this is that Beatrice and Benedick had been flirting on and off for a while, but that Benedick had let Beatrice down (You always end on a Jade's trick, I know you of old). Their familiarity is too close for their friendship to be new and blossoming, like that betwixt Claudio and Here. In fact, if you take it as a theme throughout the play you can see the differences between the uncertain but heady love of Claudio and Hero, and the routine and reliable discourse that you get with Beatrice and Benedick.

God I love that play!

Agnes

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