"Possession" - the discussion

[Freddiecat]

Here goes!

I'll add something later when I'm not being dragged off by a bored toddler... But the discussion is open!

Well what I was going to say was, does anyone else think (at this early stage - only read 4 chapters) that the relationship between Ash and his wife Ellen seems to mirror that of Roland and the menial Val?

Both men could be accused of eclipsing their partner's literary talent. Although in Roland and Val's case I don't think it sounds like he himself is actually at fault.

I am having difficulty finding time to read it at the moment, also can't quite get into it.

Good point Freddiecat - I hadn't thought of that, although I did think that there are similarities between what we are gradually discovering about Ash's relationship with the poetess and Roland's burgeoning feelings for Maud Bailey.

Maybe the difference between Ellen and Val is that presumably Victoriam self sacrifice was the norm, whereas now self sacrifice is more likely to be accompanied with the kind of soul destroying drip drip of self deprecation and resentment that Val seems to show. However, there is a point later on about a modern day but older academic woman sacrificing their academic career and writing a paper with less impact on "help-meets", i.e. the self sacrificing partners of literary talents. This character seems to be a mid point - not quite showing her resentment like Val, but not quite quietly accepting self sacrifice like Ellen.

Also I'll not give away too much, but Ellen feels a lot of gratitude to Ash, and this might make the difference as well?

I love this book, although I struggled with the poetry.

Are you enjoying reading it Freddiecat? I loved it the first time I read it, but am slightly less bowled over by it this time around. I don't know whether that's just because I am so much further away in age now from Roland and Maud than I was when I first read it.

I loved it the first time I read it too, when it first came out in paperback. I can't quite relax into the book because I can't forget that all the poetry particularly is fake. If it was genuine it would be powerful, as a man's life work, but because it's "made-up", which she's done brilliantly btw, I'm finding knowing that fact undermines any messages about literature that she might be trying to get across.

When I read it I seem to remember skipping all the poetry!

freddiecat - I thought that initially, but I think it's more subtle than that: Val has abandoned all her ambitions where Ellen didn't - as far as I've read so far anyway.

But both women seem very dull and spend their time doing what is expected of them (or, at least in Val's case, what she thinks is expected of her).

My main observation so far is the irony of using Lincoln university - Byatt must have carefully chosen a city which didn't have a university (in 1990), only for them to go and build one a few years later. Not really a literary observation, but that's the kind of thing I think of.

Plus it really struck me that this kind of historical/autobiographical investigation will be much less romantic in future. Will we see the collected txt messages of AS Byatt?

must remember to refresh before posting!

Gumdrop - I think you are right. I'm resolutely reading all the poetry! And enjoying the book so far, though I have some light reading on hand just in case.

Yes, I'm resolutely reading all the poetry this time too!

The other thing I keep thinking of is the use of the word "possession" - in the context of the various relationships and also in the context of Cropper's desire to own everything connected with Ash. Also of course it is in the title of one of Ash's poems - "Mummy Possest".

Have found it very hard to get into but will persevere. Am upto page 57 so not too much happening yet. I only manage to read on tues/weds/thurs on way to and from work so will look in later in the week.

Well only 4 chapters in but I am enjoying it. Intrigued to see what happens - especially how Maud and Roland find each other interesting. (I have this vision of Maud as a green frog right now).

Three chapters in and I'm finding it hard work for my baby brain to process. Will persevere but I'm skipping all the hard words

Just started chapter 5 and really enjoying it - it's my first AS Byatt, and a book I've put off reading for ages. As a lesbian in a previous life I particularly like the guarded references in Blanche's journal to the nature of her and Christabel's relationship - and also her sense of insecurity because of her status as a single 19th century woman; I'm looking forward to seeing how this develops and why she ends up in the Thames...
Apart from this, one of the main bits that sticks in my mind is the description of the basement flat in Putney and the cat-piss damp patches. Also where Val says their landlady is a witch, with a forbidden garden, which ties in nicely with the fairytale/myth elements of the story so far.
Paradoxically, I am enjoying the "fake" poetry more than the real stuff which I tend to avoid like the plague.

cm - well, I completely missed those references! Maybe I should read the journal bits again. But then I would feel like I was studying the thing for A level or something.

Just finished chapter 4 and was very impressed with the bit about Maud's hair and the attitude of many feminists towards beauty generally. Sadly a dilemma I've never had to deal with (or maybe happily - given Maud's excessive reaction).

Now that makes me want to read chapter 4

Sorry girls. I give up

Got to page 111 and realised a) I wasn't enjoying it b) I was skipping huge chunks, and c) I have read more newspapers in the last few days than in the rest of year put together as I just didn't want to read my book on the train.

Anyone out there who wants to read it and hasn't got it - you are welcome to my copy !

Good points clairemagnolia. I agree about the forbidden garden - this also links into what I was saying about the "Possession" theme - that which we cannot have, appears to us all the sweeter!

There is a bit in Chapter 9 that has sort of made the chills run down my spine - it picks up an allusion to a poem by Robert Graves mentioned in Chapter 1 - look out for it if you haven't got to Chapter 9 yet.

Fair enough Kayleigh. It is quite a challenging book. I have to say now I've got into it (read 6 chapters!) I'm enjoying it and being able to discuss it online makes it more enjoyable still.

I'm going to start a "light reading" discussion in the next couple of days if you are interested...

Thanks Freddiecat. Think the light reading thread may be more up my street.

I will finish this, it got better after chapter 4. I need to be awake when i read it though but enjoying it more now.

thought the description of cropper in that awful bathroom beginning of chapter 6 was hilarious! the poetry is a bit hard work. i usually skip the poem bits at beginings of chapters in most books but had been reading these. however they seem to have no relevance to the chapter itself (or am i really missing something?)

No, freddiecat: I've failed to notice anything relevant in the chapter-beginning poems too. Although we could both be missing something.

I'm on the chapter about Cropper and am itching to get back to the story about Roland/Maud/Cristabel/Ash.

Also I've been thinking about the comment below about the poetry being fake: I think it was really clever of Byatt to make Ash a Victorian poet who writes poems in ancient styles and from the points of view of historical/mythical characters. She's faking a faker.