We need to talk about Kevin

[mariepuree]

I have just finished reading this and found it traumatic as well as frightening. Was Kevin a product of his mother's rejection at birth, her frosty attitude towards motherwood and her nihilistic, supercilious assertions that she was better than everyone else? Or was Kevin innately cruel, insensitive and lacking in empathy? I think it was a combination of both and I certainly think that ultimately, Kevin was a sociopath and misanthrope.

Also, at the end, despite their fraught relationship, I felt that Kevin did respect his mother, in his own convoluted way. On the hand, he clearly despised his father who went over the top, imo, with his buddy-daddy approach to fatherhood and seemed completely oblivious to Kevin's sneers and derisions of him.

This is the first book that I have read by Lionel Shriver and will be reading more of her books in future.

Runs off to the library to get this one!

Opinion on this is very split, I enjoyed it and thought it a brilliant piece of writing, however some (Mothers mainly of which i am one too btw) find it repulsive, shocking, unnatural, and describe Lionel shriver as anti motherhood etc etc. I founf it interesting as I've worked with young men like this on psychiatric secure units and found some of the fine details scarily accurate.

Unfortunately she's a bit of a one trick pony though, her other literature is s**t. I've attempted to read 2 of her other books and barely managed a few pages, the writing style and content was very poor.

she's an odd character no doubt about it, and she's not into children!! If you google her you may be able to find some interviews she's done. Strange. She deliberately wanted to change her name to a mans name so she chose Lionel! That in itself is odd!

I am glad that I did not read this before becoming a mother!

Lionel Shriver touches on taboos that some would think but would not admit. I have never regretted having my children but I can imagine that some mothers and fathers do.

I don't believe that Kevin's mother, Eve, was cut out to be a mother because she was not prepared to change her attitudes. She came across to me as selfish, narcisstic and spoilt. She was really only interested in herself and her husband. Kevin was an extremely clever boy and he knew from an early age that she did not really want or love him in the first place.

I read this when I was pregnant with my first child, which probably wasn't the best set of circumstances in which to read it. I said then that I'd read it again but I can't bring myself to plough through it again. I found it very unbelievable.

Mmm, that is an interesting insight Minx. The bit I cannot fathom out is Eve's descriptions of Kevin as a toddler. Surely, children that age respond to love, warmth and sympathy? As a toddler, Kevin gravitated towards his father who showed more interest in him and showered him with affection. Eve on the other hand, came across as cold, distant and mechanical.

I read alot of books like this as I find them interesting. I dont do love stories or fantasy books.

Llareggub, I cannot reconcile Eve's description of Kevin when he was a pre-schooler. I find it incredulous that a toddler can be so perceptive, calculating and deliberate in his behaviour towards his parents, especially Eve.

kevin was the one who seemed to reject his mum from the beginning (refusal of the breast immediately after birth).

disturbing book, i agree, but a very insightful one as well. i loved it.

mariepuree perhaps you could think about whether Eve is a reliable narrator or not? Was Kevin really like that as a toddler? As you say it's pretty unbelievable.

FWIW I loved the book, a real nightmare/horror story for mothers. Excellent.

I thought this book was great- tho I made the mistake of reading it on a stressful "holiday" a few years ago and I reckon it only made it worse

...you can only imagine my delight when ds brought back a certificate for archery on the last day of term

I heard a radio adaptation of this book, and found it so mind-numbingly depressing that I have not been able to face reading the book.

SHJ rofl at the archery......

However cold his mother was, nothing could ever excuse what Kevin did and she cannot possibly take the blame - why do we always try to find a woman to blame anyway? Perhaps the father's indulgence prevented Kevin getting the psychiatric help he needed?

Doris Lessing's "Fifth Child" explores a similar theme. A couple have 4 lovely children and then a Kevin. Her point seems to be that some kids are just born evil and that it doesn't make a huge difference in those circumstances what a parent does.

Heed minxofmancunia's wise words: I - well, obviously 'enjoyed' is the wrong word - was fascinated and appalled by this novel but sooooooooo disappointed by her others. Have read one and a half - managed to finish the one about tennis players but The Post-Birthday World is sitting abandoned on a book shelf...

I don't blame Kevin's mother for his evil acts. Ultimately, what he did to his sister and his final act of immolation were entirely his responsibility

He rejected is mother at birth by refusing to breast-feed but I wonder if that rejection was a response to her coldness towards him. She did not want him and babies instinctively can perceive this.

It's been a long time since I read this but I was quite affected by it.

I felt that, oddly, Kevin and his mum had a 'real' connection. They understood each other. He knew that she knew, and she knew that he knew she knew I suppose that's why they had the same surname - they were both Khatchadourians, weren't they, whilst Celia and the father were Plasketts?

I think an interesting question is whether, even if Eve's behaviour had caused Kevin's behaviour, she was to blame for it. He wasn't abused or neglected; he was very intelligent and clearly knew right from wrong. How far are parents responsible for their kids' actions? Bearing in mind that all his father's attention apparently had no positive effect on Kevin.

I loved the bit where having a child is compared to letting a stranger into your house. It suggested that a baby is a fully-formed personality, when really the book raises al sorts of questions about whether or not that is the case.

I don't think Eve was an entirely reliable narrator but I do think she was an honest one.

Lionel Shriver did a Q&A on here, you know. It will be in Webchats, I think.

Her other books are very disappointing, imo.

Agree with your view, freerange.

minx, you say you work with young men on secure psychiatric wards. Do you have any thoughts whether they are largely born or made?

We really don't need to talk about Kevin. Dull, insipid, predictable nonsense.

It was a bit of a slog in parts, I agree.

I thought it was absolutely bloody brilliant.
Insightful and original.
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She's not blaming the mother exactly, is she; she's blaming society as well.

I don't believe any child is born evil, although I believe some children have tendencies that make them less able to cope with abuse i.e they break, rather than bend. Girls are better copers, I think, whereas boys tend to break/snap.
The mother broke his arm; that's pure abuse, so I don't think you can say it's a coincidence that he turned out bad. Some kids turn out ok after that kind of abuse, some kids don't.

Hilarious about the archery, SHJ!

I found it a compelling read pre-child - not sure if I could read it again post-child, but I might give it a shot.

Freerange,that's an interesting point about the surnames - I've never noticed it before.

But Eve attributing malign intent to a baby refusing the breast isshows that there is something off in her reasoning too. Eve and Kevin's interaction is negative for them both because they both share an inherent lack of empathy.

I had forgotten all about the arm-breaking bit, Sakura! Thanks for reminding me.

NicknameTaken, I agree - there is definitely something off about Eve.

I thought, with Kevin's infancy, Shriver was suggesting that Eve was made to feel like a failure by her horrible doctor and that this fostered feelings of resentment. She and Kevin didn't bond immediately; he didn't take to the breast as she had been told he should; his birth was painful because Eve refused pain medication out of some misguided attempt to appear strong. I think this was an interesting comment on how women are made to feel that motherhood should take a particular form and that deviation from that form is equated with failure. Or summat.

With Celia's birth she accepted pain relief and the whole thing was less traumatic because she did it the way she wanted to, and not the way she felt she should.

That's really interesting, freerange - totally makes sense. I think I'll have to have a re-read.