If you can’t do WLI and desperately need to lose weight, what approach would you take?

[slawandskinnyfries]

As per the title, cannot do WLI for medical reasons, I am so desperate to lose weight, I have constant food noise and genuinely feel hunger a lot of the time. I have been this way for my whole adult life and although I have managed to lose a lot of weight in the past through a strict calorie controlled diet, it just wasn’t sustainable for me and of course I have done the classic thing of putting it all back on and more. I overeat and constantly think about food. I am also menopausal which doesn’t help anything. Is there any hope for me?

I think you need to do some soul searching as to what’s going on with your diet.

What are your flash points? Weaknesses? What’s driving you to overeat? You say you have tried all sorts - I think you need to delve deep and look at all this. It needs not to be a diet but a lifestyle change.

If you read my OP you will see that I genuinely get hungry. I have what we now know as food noise all of the time. Imagine you are an alcoholic and someone constantly puts a glass of wine in front of you and tells you not to drink it. That’s me with food. Except I do not have the option to stop eating. WLI would almost certainly be the answer for me, switching off the food noise and constant drive to eat. But I don’t have that option. So I’m asking for anything else that might work.

Except I do not have the option to stop eating.

You don't say your weight (and not asking you to disclose it) but for people beyond a certain BMI there are 'VLCD' (very low calorie) diets where you do, essentially, stop eating and only take nutritional supplements under regular supervision. It is the nearest equivalent to completely 'giving up' as you might with alcohol or other addictions.

If you are a suitable candidate in terms of your BMI and other health conditions, might that approach work?

You say you genuinely get hungry. Do you have a medical condition where you literally don’t feel hunger? (I can’t remember the name of it)

Your analogy with alcohol is interesting - an alcoholic doesn’t need the drink, it’s an addition that compels them. If you do have the condition that’s one thing but if you don’t, for food - it’s not actual hunger that’s driving the consumption but addiction. Hunger is just an excuse, like an alcoholic will find an excuse to consume alcohol.

if it is the latter, it’s counselling you need to unpick this.

I get the food noise so I do get it. But this is extreme.

Forgive mr if you have said but why aren’t WLI or tablets an option?

When the food noise is shouting at you what food is it telling you to eat?
Can you shut it up with a pear or an apple or is it only telling you to eat UPF?

Another left field suggestion but have you tried the Paul McKenna book? I found his sleep book/cd helpful when I was having trouble sleeping a few years ago (quite a long time, actually judging by the fact it was a cd!!) and I know there is a similar diet one though I haven’t tried it

good luck and hope you find something that helps

If I eat something substantial and non upf I do feel better, and full, but I need at least one decent snack in between meals. Which means I am eating far too many calories for my age. I do get tempted and give in too quickly with rubbish, especially for snacks, which is what I really need to try and work on.

Not Paul McKenna but I did the Slim pod for a while and have also had hypnotherapy, both of which helped a bit in the short term.

Be really kind to yourself. You sound exactly like I was but I could use wlis and it wasn't until I started then I realised what I'd been battling. Food noise? More like food screaming and every time I dieted it got louder. I woke up every morning hating my body and it was starting to hurt. Honestly firstly understand it's like going to war with yourself. Instead be really kind. It's hard. Take it slow and invest in eggs and Greek yoghurt is my best advice.

Thank you. I can only imagine the relief to be able to turn off the noise! I’m going to try and go back to proper non upf snacks (meals are generally good) and see if it helps.

I would start by increasing your protein and fibre, make sure every meal is 1/3 or more veg and you've had plenty of water, this should help quiet some of the cravings. Then just make small reductions in the portion sizes of other things. I find that if I start my day off with a decent breakfast (I have overnight oats with chia seeds and Greek yogurt) it makes it much easier to make sensible choices later. Don't try and cut out all the things you enjoy but if they are high calorie or upf snacks just reduce them so have half the portion size, half as often and when you do have it savour it and enjoy it guilt free! You could swap your morning snack for a piece of fruit and know you've got something else to look forward to later.

I spent a lot of my adult life 2-3 stone heavier than I am now. And I ate/felt similarly to you- though perhaps not quite to the same extent in that I could manage not to snack excessively some days (not most).

It changed around 6 years ago for me when I really, finally wanted to get it sorted (following several attempts across my teen/adult life- similar to you in the things I’d tried).

The key for me was daily home strength workouts- 5 or 6 days a week of a 20 online workout- Joe Wicks and similar. Started at the beginning with very easy workouts- I was extremely unfit. Took the edge off my appetite and gave me a positive focus. Rather than deprivation I centred my efforts on achievement- getting fitter, stronger, leaner, increased energy, better mood, sleep and focus. I had control which was the biggest battle to win for me.

I ate a lot better and considered my choices carefully, but I still ate things I liked every day- no rigid framework (tried and failed with those). I did eat significantly less- but didn’t feel hungry most of the time due to the exercise curbing cravings (which I was very surprised at).

Managed to keep it off and now settled at bmi of 22 in summer and 23 in winter though a bit lower at the moment as refocused these last few weeks on diet in particular.

Might not be the answer for everyone so apologies if this approach wouldn’t work for you and good luck!

The thing is with the UPF stuff is it’s designed to taste good but also to make you want more, I mean that’s literally how they’re making money.
No one’s spending millions trying to make apples addictive are they?!
So from that perspective it’s not your fault if you’ve become somewhat addicted to unwise choices when it comes to snacking, it doesn’t make you a bad person.

Could you consider what you might gain from eating the right foods and the right snacks, by choosing the apple instead of the chocolate for example you’re gaining fibre and vitamins. The chocolate might taste good in the moment but nutritionally speaking it’s just empty calories and I’m sure ten minutes later you’re not continuing to feel good about it, you’re probably regretting it already.
Might be something worth thinking about, saying no to delicious food is so difficult but being overweight is bloody difficult too.

Eat at least 30g protein at every meal
eat shed loads of veg
cut out carbs initially for a month then reintroduce in small amounts- not bread not pasta - stick to rice and potatoes
drink. 2ltrs water every day
weightlifting- get a pt
walking after each meal helps stop glycemic spikes
get enough sleep
don’t drink alcohol
dont eat UPFs

Track your progress.. weigh yourself every day.
log your food on my fitness pal for a while to get a idea of calories
remember weigh loss isn’t linear- your line may bob up and down. But if it’s going in a general down direction then it’s working.

Agree with this plus intermittent fast

As well as the post about exercise above I also entirely agree about high protein and good fats. We were told for years to eat low fat (usually rubbish) diet foods but high fat, protein and far lower carbs (and focussing on getting good carbs from root veg, lentils whole grains etc) has been great for me.

Thank you for all the helpful and supportive comments. I have formulated a bit of a plan. I’m going to allow myself to eat when hungry including snacks (I have somehow assimilated the fact that snacks are bad over my many years of on off dieting) but those snacks will be protein and good fat heavy. No calorie counting, I know that this is a road to absolute disaster and self sabotage for me. Today I had some nuts mid morning and greek yogurt with berries this afternoon (thanks whoever suggested greek yogurt ). I am interested in strength workouts as also mentioned by several of you, I do Pilates but nothing else really. If anyone can recommend some suitable strength workouts for complete beginners that would be great. I have fallen out of the habit of walking which I used to really enjoy, so will try and get back into that too. I think my aim now has to be feeling fit and strong rather than getting slim again. I do feel a bit more in control now so this thread was useful, thanks all.

And how will you lose weight on that? High fat will almost inevitably mean surplus calories, unless carbs very seriously restricted (ketosis).

@slawandskinnyfries , classic diet advice of eating less and moving more has been failing people for decades; it’s almost as if it doesn’t work!
I lost my weight on Mounjaro but I can identify with your frustration and despair it’s just how I felt before going on GLP-1. These medications do two major things the first and very important one is that they regulate blood glucose and the second is they slow gastric emptying.
My suggestion would be to throw every thought of going on a ‘diet’ out of the window. The very moment I went on a diet I felt deprived and could only ever think where the next food was coming from and when. I would turn your focus on to your health. Research recent science on what constitutes healthy eating. It is not just our food and drink intake which influences our health but also our movement and I would look at ways to build muscle and improve cardiovascular fitness. Take your measurements and progress photos, the scales can be an unkind partner in this journey.
Good resources, I have found helpful:-
The Zoe podcasts, massively helpful with a huge back catalogue.
Ultra Processed People (book) by Professor Chris Van Tulleken.
The Obesity Code (book) by Dr Jason Fung.
The Glucose Goddess.
Regulating your blood glucose will help enormously, stopping eating UPFs which are literally designed to make us overeat will too. You can try Berberine which some report good success with and I would definitely recommend Psyllium husk because not only is it a great source of soluble fibre but it acts much like GLP1s in that it makes you feel full for longer.
The very best of luck!

@ it’s also blooming miserable, not necessarily healthy and unsustainable.

Thank you so much for not only getting it but offering helpful advice. I think some people on this thread whilst well meaning, do not understand the complexity of the problem. I don't want to be like this, I very much doubt any overweight or obese person does. I need to try and lose my diet head and get on board with sensible achievable changes.

@slawandskinnyfries , you are very welcome. You can do this but bury the self hatred for good and move forward with pride in every good decision you make. X

I agree with keto. If you find the information a lot then just try to simplify it down for the first week or two.

Plan a week of meals (repeat if you like) and focus on removing potato, bread, rice and pasta and anything sweet (yes including nearly all fruit) from your diet.

Meals should be focused around protein, dairy, eggs and (mostly)green veggies. Drink only water, tea and coffee with no sugar an minimal milk.

Ensure you add fat. Butter, cream, you can add oil, spices, garlic, chilli, mayo and herbs to anything.

Meal ideas
Breakfast

Scrambled eggs with butter
Bacon and eggs (no sauces
Fried Mushrooms
Cheese omelette
Natural yogurt, with nuts or raspberries/strawberries

Lunch
Chicken soup
Mushroom soup
Broccoli and stilton soup
Salad with meat/eggs/cheese

Dinner.

Meatballs in tomato sauce with cheese with fried broccoli
Fajita chicken (without the wraps) so with cheese, sour cream, fried peppers, leaves.
Sausages with coleslaw (mayo and vinegar)
Chicken with bacon and Creamy garlic sauce with courgette.

There are tonnes of recipes on the low carb bootcamp here on Mumsnet if you want more creative ideas.

You will feel like you are coming down with something. Shaky, cold, headache. This is sugar withdrawal. Keto flu. The first week is the hardest but you will find that at about 10-14 days your sugar cravings and appetite will reduce.

Remember also that your body has adjusted over the years to 'needing' a certain number of calories every day in order to feel full. When you stop giving it that amount of calories it reacts by telling you to give it more to get that full feeling. You can replicate that full feeling (to an extent) by eating more volume in the shape of protein, fruit and veg - but with fewer calories. Feeling hungry is a temporary thing until your body adapts - keep telling yourself you won't starve, you're giving your body what it actually needs. Most of us who need to lose weight need far fewer calories than we think we do.